In praise of Aspie men

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Thanks Popsicle, it is interesting to compare notes. I'm not sure what the men on this forum must think of our posts. I hope this discussion isn't offensive to anyone. The ONLY big complaint that I have about my aspie partner is that we have a complete difference in our political views and this impacts on our lives. I was raised socialist. My dad was heavily involved in unionism all his life. There is not alot of money in my family, but we take care of each other when necessary. By contrast, my aspie partner's parents are business owners. They are millionaires. And they seem to have the view that since he is disabled it is his lot in life that he should exist on government assistance and odd jobs. What is even more infuriating to me is that he totally accepts his parent's view!

He is not capable of maintaining employment. There has been a period of time where I have even supported him on my disability cheque. He feels badly about this, but asking for money from his parents in advance of his inheritance is unthinkable to him.

We have many arguments over this issue. I am deeply hurt that he thinks it was okay to exist on my disabliity cheque, but that it is somehow an offence to ask his parents for money. I am deeply hurt that he has not presented this problem to his parents the way I think that he should and that they aren't aware enough to realize the inequity of it all.

I am very blunt with him about what I think about this situation. To his credit he does this behavior where he cleans the house from top to bottom. And he does all these great activities with the kids, and tries to be the best partner anyone could ask for. Somehow though, for me, it never resolves the underlying issue, which is that he is, bless him, not a good provider at all. He's diagnosed disabled with AS and various co-morbids and he's never going to be a successful provider for the family.

That's my only complaint. And sometimes I'm not very nice to him because of my anger about this situation.

My relationship with my aspie partner involves more than just him and myself. I think that any discussion of marriage has to include the whole family. That is how a therapist would approach this issue using 'family systems' theory. We are all so much more than our individual lives and marital relationships. I think that probably the women who complain so bitterly about their aspie husbands don't have a very good understanding of family systems and how this relates to social structures. I get angry at my aspie partner, but I also understand that some of the factors influencing our relationship are outside his control. Maybe these bitter women have been watching too much Dr. Phil.

Anandamide:

I am very glad that you are in such a great relationship. That said, I think a better title for this thread would have been "In praise of my Aspie man", simply because the positive traits you listed do not apply to all Aspie men, nor do they necessarily not apply to some NTs.

Take me for example. I am the opposite of him in a number of ways (mostly negative). It's very hard for me not to snap back if someone gets angry at me or criticizes me harshly, especially if it's someone close to me. Also, I am very disorganized and not very good at doing housework. Finally, science has been my nemesis every since elementary school, and I am generally more prone to thinking inside the box rather than outside it.

Once again, I don't mean any disrespect to you or him, and I'm sorry if I'm coming off as overly preachy. I would attribute your partner's strength towards him being intelligent, kind, calm, confident, and understanding - not towards being an Aspie.

Thank you for understanding, AmeliaJane. I was half fearing I'd come back here to find a post blasting me. I am going through a lot right now, really a lot.

And he's still convinced he's fine and it's all me! (I mean in the sense of, he doesn't feel my wishes or opinions matter... not even that much... he doesn't even think of it as if I have any; he treats me like "there, there, hysterical female".)

anandamide: I agree with you...

And also looking at the whole family dynamic sounds interesting and worthwhile. Would you tell me more about that?

In reading the post about him and his parents, anandamide, I sense they see you as the troublemaker or squeaky wheel. I too am the squeaky wheel with his family... or WAS... (never again, after being blamed for MAKING him "ill"?!) and I know how it hurts... they are set in their thinking, do not understand what it's like, and will never see any failing in their relative. They fail to see that once married YOU are their relative, too.

miki: Well said. Those of us with kind partners, or those of us with selfish partners... it isn't an Aspie trait, I think, either way. Just a human one. I have to say that it stings a bit at times or it has in the past week or two, to read posts that are blissful. IT makes me feel as if every Aspie man is this way with the right woman. But I think my hubby's selfishness and lack of response to what's important to me, VITAL to me... isn't an Aspie trait.. the more I read about Aspie men by them or their wives, the more I think, it's just his choice to let me down.

And I don't know which is harder to deal with! (Probably the latter, as he could change it then; but won't.)

Yes! The first statement is a perfect description! (for me anyways) He will never change until he accepts the fact that he is different, otherwise, he´ll just always attempt to fit in, which may not be possible. I couldn´t move on until I accepted the fact that I´ll just always be different.

Miki, You're right. I should have begun this thread with a preface that made my post relevent to other people. I've fixed it now, so if you go to the first post in the thread you can see my introductory statement.

As far as my aspie partner's personality being based on aspie traits or not, well, all I can say is that when we went to the autism specialist that doctor spent a long time telling me that my partner's almost buddhist-like detachment, his pragmatism, his lack of emotional conflict and also his methodical way of doing housework were all related to AS.

Popsicle, I apologize that my post might make it seem as though my relationship with my aspie man is perfect. I don't think any relationship is perfect. It's just that I could write a freakin' book about how kind my aspie partner is compared to three NT idiots I've been in a relationship with. I am glad that my aspie partner is emotionally drama free. Some women might perceive that my aspie man lacks emotional depth, but I think it's wonderful.

You wrote:

When I want to talk about my feelings with someone I call my mother or my sister. I don't try to talk about emotions with my aspie partner. Even though he can be very understanding and offer great insight, he's useless at discussing feelings.



Family systems is a counselling approach where the counsellor looks at problems in the context of a multigenerational family structure. Counsellors who use that approach look at the whole family in order to decipher how multigenerational structural and communication issues have created whatever problems are now being attributed to one specific individual within the family structure.



Once again, I am sorry if my blissful post makes it seem that my relationship is perfect. I thought I had added enough detail about how angry I get at him that it would not seem my relationship was perfect, because it is not. I am diagnosed with Asperger's and so is my partner. I am quite sure there are a number of NT women who would go and jump off a freakin bridge if they had to live my life, or strangle their aspie partner. My aspie partner can't hold down a job because of his comorbids. That makes life very hard. It's damn hard living in poverty. The fact is though, most of the problems we have are down to issues outside our control because of AS comorbids. (I have to make clear here that not ALL people with AS share the same comorbids, so I am not using this post to abstract to all men with AS) What I try to do is to keep in mind that many of our issues are outside our control, but I can't always control my frustration and anger. I think what helps us to stay together is that my aspie partner and I share the experience of being on the wrong planet. We are both diagnosed with AS. We can turn to each other when things get hard. We often joke around about "the normals" and refer to ourselves as "lunatics". I think that the fact that we both have AS strengthens our bond. We can tolerate or accept the conflicts we have related to AS and see the positive side of it all. Most importantly, we can both understand that we both have issues outside our control.

Last edited by anandamide on 02 Jul 2006, 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Your partner is the lucky one. I've been married for 20 years, but ever since the diagnosis (about 5 years ago) my wife has been unbearable.

Ever since the diagnosis she is automatically right about everything because I have AS. If I argue with her, it is AS. If I am critical of her, AS. If she is critical of me, that is only right, because I have AS. Despite the fact that I have been very well employed in computers for 20 years, she acts like AS has ruined my career. It is true that I often don't get along well with authority figures, and I have had a lot of jobs, but many of them were contract jobs, and I've always had a job, making close to six figures every year. Yet I am treated like I am unstable and not a good provider.

Not only that, but I am very mildly effected, and I am pretty sure I could have NOT been diagnosed with AS. I was TRYING to get the diagnosis, because I thought it would make her happy -- huge mistake, it made her far, far worse. When I tell her that I could go to another doctor who would NOT diagnose me with AS, she goes berserk. I am in DENIAL, etc ...

Ever since our first child was born, and we now have three, she has been unhappy. It wasn't me. I didn't change. All I did was work all day and come home to be critisized and yelled at and blamed for everything under the sun.

Anyway, lucky him.

Pappy, As I posted above there are times when I am not very nice to my aspie partner. I yell at him and criticize him and Ive become quite explicit about what I think of the deficits in our relationship. And yet, I know in the other part of my brain that my anger isnt toward him. My anger and frustration is because of MY failure to accomplish MY own goals and fulfill my own potential. I just take it out on him alot. I know it, and he knows it. I am lucky in that he lets me complain bitterly, and doesnt internalize my criticisms. Im lucky that he can take my angry words and frustration like water off a ducks back, otherwise our relationship would probably not survive.

anandamide: Thank you as ever for your openness and honesty.

I'm sorry if I sounded grumpy in earlier posts; I've been very dejected about the stalemate in my relationship. There is only so much one person can do. What Im hearing on the forum here is that is not an Aspie trait - that a man can have Aspergers and still try to do things which are important to his spouse, or things which are basics in a marriage. I dont know if that makes me even sadder about him, because that means he can, but he won't.

Pappy: It sounds to me as if POSSIBLY, hearing it felt 'final' to her... as if things would never change or get better. While you sound content or even happy... are there issues she is not happy with? She should not throw your AS back in your face; but it sounds as if she is a bundle of nerves. Living without being able to express her NT-ness possibly has made her frustrated or even angry. She may have suddenly realised all at once that she won't ever get the type of NT things she craves.

If you can imagine living 20 yrs without any of the AS things that make you comfortable... and how nervous you'd feel as a result... let's say instead of computers you had to be a car salesman or something... well for an NT to not touch, hold, socialise, or talk much, is very taxing on them as well. Maybe she's missing things she feels she might have had if her hubby were an NT also.

Have you asked her what you can do for her? Or do you sort of ignore her when she's angry? My husband ignores my feelings and that makes me feel even more upset. Ask her to write down ten things she would really like you to do... small and large things.. and then try to do them one by one. She may improve and if her mood improves then how she treats you will likely improve also.

that was lovely.
I recently reconciled with my ex husband (we're both aspies) because no matter how nice NT's were, they just didn't get me the way he does. I will concur, aspie men are wonderful, my two favorite people are, he and our son.

I love my Aspie husband. I wrote about all things I like about him in the thread about how women don't find Asperger's attractive and I'm not going to stoop to redundency and rewrite it all here.

I'll just say that he's my soulmate and a special gift to me. I have ADHD and have always felt so different from everyone else. He's always felt different too. But we totally "get" each other. It just works. He's like a haven from the rest of the world of boring average people who are always doing everything they're supposed to do in the way it's supposed to be done. And I feel safe being myself around him knowing he's not judging me when my meds wear off at the end of day and I'm full blown ADHD again.

He's my second husband and has taken on the responsiblity of helping me raise my 2 sons from my previous marriage. If my sons grow up to be half the man my husband is, I'd be the luckiest Mom in the world.

So what if he doesn't like to kiss of the lips or can't eat half the food I make because of the way it feels in his mouth or only rents war documentaries...I can think of a million worse things and all the wondeful things he does makes up for all the little quirks.

What things are 'basics" in a marriage? Honestly, I have to ask because I don't know, you see. Being as AS as I am I never took the normal path in life. I never had a wedding, never had a honeymoon. I've never had a mortgage. I've never had 2.5 kids to one man in wedlock. I've never even had a wedding ring. I've always lived on the margins. I always feel that I've somehow found myself excluded from all the trappings of a "normal" life. I wonder, and I hope you can tell me, because I am curious. What constitutes the basics of normal married life to you?




In my experience the only reason NT men ever want to hold, socialize, or talk is to get sex. I don't know that I have ever met any NT men who would want to do any of those things with a woman unless it led to being able to have sex. I suppose there must be some out there who are different than the ones I've met, but my experience is that not many NT men are very interested in doing the things you list. My aspie male is not a typical male. In fact, he often gets mistaken for a gay man or a female. He's very androgynous looking. I always found regular straight NT men boooorrrrring.



That's a great tip Popsicle. I'm going to give my aspie man a list like that! Although I think I better shorten the list to maybe two or three things because I think ten items might overwhelm him.

Since you say you really do want to know (as opposed to being someone who's just belittling my comment or arguing etc. - which doesn't really happen on this board much I notice anyway) I will be happy to try to reply.

The basics of marriage? There are different categories. Financially/security wise: First, knowing what our finances are. Being an equal in that sense. He wants to control just about everything including the bank book; to the extent that I have no idea how much money we truly have, how any of it is invested etc. I have no say also in how it's used. When he buys stocks, he just buys them. The only way I know is if he happens to mention it later or he's talking on the phone w/his buddy very nearby. Also financially: A home. That is hugely important to me. I wanted children and if not, to adopt (which he agreed to and enthused about pre wedding). We can't do that in a 1 BR 1 ba bachelorette apartment, where he moved into and we still are... You need a bedroom for the child, before you can even apply to adopt, of course. His refusal to do that, despite the banker telling us we could buy a home, astounds me to say the least. And by the way I only got him to go to the banker to ask about that since we were there anyway to close that account when we moved (at first we lived in HIS old bachelor pad). While there I took the opportunity to talk to an official about loans. Turns out we could have a very good and manageable home loan. Also financially: my own separate small spending account would be nice, or if not, just a budget, so I have some 'mad money' every month for things I want that I don't want to ask him for - Im 'not a five yr old and he's the dad, he's supposedly my equal and it is supposdly "our" money. But to his mind, I have to ask. So I have requested in the past we see a money manager type who can mediate both our concerns and give me the info I feel I am entitled to have.

Romantically/emotionally: Quality time... at least half an hour twice a week of just sitting and talking - our therapist did tell us in teh past, that watching tv together does not count. There is nothing emotionally intimate about watching the squawk box. Having had something to mark our latest anniversary would've been nice. I have even mentioned that I have a card for him but since he gave me no card, did not say Happy Anniversary (that I recall) and did not make it up to me later... rather he canceled our night out later on, for a night with buddies... that I have not given him his card yet. I did have gifts for him that day which I did give to him, but, a card's more personal. So things like that. Basic consideration from him. Feeling I matter more to him than whatever whim of the moment or a night with his buddies (which he doesn't do often ut I have never ever begrudged him it - but - having previous plans w/me, he shouldn't have asked to go... he was crying so I said yes). We were to then go out to dinner the next day (Sunday) but that day he never budged off the sofa.

Not drinking would be nice since he's on meds and isn't suupposed to. Not lying to me about it sometimes, when he does drink, would be nice also. Touching occasionally (hugs, a friendly kiss - he has no real passion but I'd settle for friendly - my mom had to tell him today to hug and kiss me sometimes!). I have given up on a conjugal life with him at all. I am tired of being rejected for that. He was ok with those things while dating but he did seem very detached also. I thought it was just his religious upbringing. Also I tend to be a passionate girl so maybe it was mostly me supplying the fire then, but I didn't notice He doesn't even realise how lucky he is... in that a lot of women in my shoes would have cheated on him by now. But believe me, my ethics prevent that - and I dont' expect a medal for absence of wrongdoing

Remembering the things I am allergic to or make me sick would be nice. That is not a basic of marriage though so much as it is relating back to the 'basic kindness and consideration' idea. Just compassion, kindness, courtesy, attention, quality time, touch, and a home life. And once in a while at least... socialising with other people. He does socialise at times on his own... but I think he's the type who in teh old days would've been called a dyed in the wool bachelor... his real loves are horse racing, whiskey and cigars. And also at home... his computer.

Just having a partner in life too... would be really nice and is a basic marital expectation. Things like not standing me up for my own sister's wedding! They will all assume we're on the brink of divorce (which basically... we are). But he doesn't feel like it so that is that. Another basic of married life? His compromising and meeting me halfway... rather than controlling and calling all the shots, and making all decisions with no discussion at all - or even giving me a chance to discuss! Compromise and being less selfish should be part of the married life! After all - part of the ceremony we had is 'two become one'. He doesn't really seem to notice or care if I am unhappy... even if I say so, and/or tell him what might make me happy etc. he will sometmies do little things - mainly get me something to eat... BUT that is such a minor thing to me, compared with these thigns I've listed here.

LOL I have to laugh he just snorted a really big snore from the sofa... HAHA...

The last thing one should expect of any close partner - business OR marriage really - is "KEEP YOUR PROMISES". He breaks them to me all the time... ALL the time. And it breaks my heart in two.

Hope that helped.



In my experience... age and how much they love you factors into that. True, most of them are ALWAYS thinking about it, but - some are quite willing to put themselves 2nd and to just cuddle if that's your preference. Unless they are young and/or just out to score, they will be patient for the next time.





Thank you! Hope it is helpful!

Two or three would work just as well!

No, I really did want to know. Thank you for answering. I am really out of the loop when it comes to a "normal" marriage. I often lay in bed and think about how things might have been if I had married a man who could provide all of the things that make a normal marriage. It is very interesting to me to hear your answer. I've always thought, sometimes very bitterly, that I don't have a proper marital relationship precisely because none of the things you list are even available to us in our relationship, never mind being our basic values or activities. I envy people who can strive for and achieve a "normal" marriage.

It seems useful to compare our experiences, because maybe such a comparison can offer insight to the both of us?



Wow. You and I live in totally different worlds. If I was ever to have waited for the right moment and a proper house to have kids, I'd have waited forever. In my case, I was living at home because of my AS. My few girlfriends had gone on to have adult lives with their own apartments or husbands with careers. I had nothing. I was trying really hard, and I didn't know why I kept failing in employment. I was thirty odd years old and living with my father. I didn't know I had AS at the time. I thought I might eventually have a career if I studied in uni long enough. I met this man who was a singer in nightclubs. He told me he'd had a vastectomy. It was a lie. I got pregnant and had my first daughter out of wedlock. The day she was born my entire extended family were in the birth room, crying and laughing from joy. But I had no husband. My daughter, and the children I had after that, are the center of my entire extended family's existence. We have a matriarchally led family, because all the women in my extended family are divorced. I was never married. With my first daughter I moved into a very small basement suite in a house. Then a rundown apartment. I don't think my situation is all that unique. I'd bet there's alot of us, particularly disabled women, who will never have the perfect house, or the perfect moment to have children. As far as waiting for the man to want to have a child, or the right sort of housing, well for many of us that moment may never come. I did it anyway, even if it was not what I had planned, and things worked out. What I am trying to say is that "planning" and finding the perfect circumstances in which to have a child is not always an option. Some women, like me, do it anyway. And for me it worked out. I know there's alot of people who would condemn me for this, but my children are very healthy and happy.



I know what it is like to be treated like a child when it comes to finances. It's infuriating! I am the primary applicant of our disability cheque. The cheque comes in my name. If my aspie partner needs anything at all I have to speak to the income assistance office about it. He tried the other day to call about a bus pass. The income assistance office person would not speak to him and told him to get me to call since I am the primary applicant, that is the person whose name is on the family's cheque. My aspie partner was laughing about it. I thought it was terrible. Other restrictions on our disability based income are that we can't go out of the country to live, we can't even leave the province. If we wanted to move to another apartment we have to get permission. The last time we moved we had to get an advocate to write a letter to the income assistance office to say why it would be healthful for our family to move to another apartment. We had to justify moving to a more expensive apartment from the subsidized unit we were living in. I can sympathize with your frustration and anger at being treated like a child. I hope this works out for you because it is very oppressive. If my partner treated me like that I'd kick his ass. (Not literally, but you know what I mean.)




We WISH we could watch TV. The cable is very expensive here. My aspie partner spends hours downloading stuff from livewire on the internet. We put it on a dvd disc and then watch whatever he has been able to download on the tv together. Mostly we save the room on the harddrive for children's programs. Luckily the news is online so we do get newsbroadcasts, but a day later than other people. One good thing about not having TV cable is that my kids have become avid readers. As far as spending time together doing quality things, well, we go out to the several local supermarkets to compare which ones have the cheapest meat for sale. Or we find economical recipes to cook together. As far as conversation goes we don't have alot of intimate discussions together. I do miss that, very much, and often wonder what it would be like to be with someone who could look into my eyes (he never does) and talk in depth about feelings and things. But as I have posted above, I'm a firm believer that men, NT or otherwise, don't talk like that. In my experience all men are duds when it comes to intimate conversation.



Sex is not a big deal in our house. What with the children and my aversions we don't have alot of sex. I'd rather work on my interests and so would he. Sometimes I joke around with him that if he does what I want him to I'll let him "see" me naked later on. He jokingly complains in a flat monotone voice, "Wow, that'll be exciting, eh?" Usually I'm talking to the back of his head because he's on the computer. He complains about this lack of sex but doesn't complain very strongly about it. And we don't kiss, because I have an aversion to kissing. Somehow our relationship holds together without alot of that. I suppose it could be because we are both AS. This is another aspect where our AS "common-law marriage" seems so at odds with what is considered the basics of "normal" marriage.





I don't know if this helps at all. Every relationship is different, but I have one strategy that I use when I feel that I am being treated unfairly. I kick ass. You see, because of my AS I have lost everything several times over. I have lived with the humiliation of not being able to acquire the trappings of a normal life for so long it doesn't bother me anymore to lose everything. If my aspie partner dares to behave in any manner that I feel is cruel or oppressive toward me, I threaten to kick his ass out the door. And he knows I'd do it too. I can do it because I have failed and started over so many times in terms of employment, education, relationships with men and women, largely because of AS that I know I don't need to put up with that sort of treatment from anyone. I can lose everything because I already have very little to lose. My aspie partner knows that if he doesn't behave he is out the door.




LOL. Mine isn't "allowed" to take naps on the couch. Not with three kids running around.



Mine can't make any promises, cause he's poor as a pauper and the disability cheque is in my name. The only promises he can make are to do certain chores or go to the grocery store or take the kids swimming or whatever. If he tries to reneg on any of those promises I make such a big stink about it that he has to comply. As I say, sometimes I am not very nice to him. But I am a quite poor disabled woman, I do without so much already that when I do not feel I am being given the modicum of respect I feel I deserve, I fight back like holy hell. I am quite forceful and determined in ensuring that I do get that respect.

If I were in a relationship where the man held all the power in terms of finances I don't think it would work out for me. I'm way too angry and frustrated so I don't think most financially capable men would put up with me.

I often dream of what it would be like to be in a normal marital situation. I dream of what it would be like if I had taken up some offers I had from men who were capable of being traditional husbands, when I was younger. Do you know what I think I miss about not having such a lifestyle the very most? FLOORING.

I would love to live in a house that had nice floors. I dream of quality wall to wall carpet and hardwood floors in the kitchen. To me, one sign that people are "really" married is that they have nice floors in their houses.

I don't know why this posted twice. I've deleted the second post.