Playing the field

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Grisha
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21 Jan 2011, 10:45 am

Esther wrote:

Hhmmm, this is a toughie. I was running scenarios of what must have been going through her head with the aborted lip-kiss.

Essentially, it boils down to this. If you ask her out on a second date and she accepts, then she is probably okay with what happened. I mean, if you didn't like her, you wouldn't ask her out again, right? I would look at the bigger picture and think that you probably have your reasons for not kissing on the lips. Seems fair enough.

I have more to say about this, but am constrained by time. Will come back later and see if there are any developments.

Bueno suerte!

Thanks for this.

It didn't seem so complicated to me, she just liked me and wanted to kiss. I wouldn't have minded but:

1. Kissing clouds my judgement, if you understand what I mean...

2. It seems to be L&D consensus that kissing=commitment, which I am not ready for yet. (in this specific case, not in general)

mv
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21 Jan 2011, 12:00 pm

Grisha wrote:

Esther wrote:

Grisha -

I think it depends on your experience and your comfort level, but I think a kiss at the end of the evening, as long as it's quick, can just mean, "Thank you for the lovely evening, let's see if there's any physical chemistry."

Grisha
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21 Jan 2011, 12:10 pm

mv wrote:

Grisha wrote:

Esther wrote:

So a brief kiss is OK, but "tonsil hockey" implies commitment?

mv
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21 Jan 2011, 12:17 pm

Grisha wrote:

So a brief kiss is OK, but "tonsil hockey" implies commitment?

I'm not sure what level of "commitment" other than, "I'm into you, let's go out again."

Of course, I've mistakenly had too much to drink on dates and made out with guys that I wasn't all that interested in. I no longer do this.

Grisha
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21 Jan 2011, 12:29 pm

mv wrote:

Grisha wrote:

So a brief kiss is OK, but "tonsil hockey" implies commitment?

In this context, "commitment" = it would be unethical to date others.

Also, L&D rule #2 = no drinking, for exactly the reason you mentioned.

mv
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21 Jan 2011, 12:46 pm

Grisha wrote:

In this context, "commitment" = it would be unethical to date others.

Also, L&D rule #2 = no drinking, for exactly the reason you mentioned.

Ah, I gotcha now!

I think it's okay to date other people as long as you're not doing anything other than kissing. Though I would think (maybe?) that if you're into someone enough to be kissing heavily then you're probably mentally shutting off others? I don't know. I think it depends on how naturally focused (monogamous? I'm not sure about the right word here) you are.

This is one of those things that always baffles me. Every guy seems to have different "rules" about what means what, and of course I have my own ideas. The key is to be respectful of others' feelings while still remaining true (and careful) to yourself.

Oh, and agreed on the drinking. I just have had to learn to find the right balance. I usually have just one drink, to loosen up enough to not present as totally flat affect. Most of the time I can "mask" without the alcohol, but sometimes it helps to have just one drink.

Grisha
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21 Jan 2011, 12:56 pm

mv wrote:

Grisha wrote:

In this context, "commitment" = it would be unethical to date others.

Also, L&D rule #2 = no drinking, for exactly the reason you mentioned.

Just trying to figure out how to ethically "play the field", that was the topic of the OP.

Never had this "problem" before...

mv
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21 Jan 2011, 1:12 pm

Grisha wrote:

Just trying to figure out how to ethically "play the field", that was the topic of the OP.

Never had this "problem" before...

Yep, and sadly there doesn't seem to be a hard-and-fast rule, as there often isn't when you're dealing with ethics.

I know I can meet guys who would have zero problem sleeping with me and never talking to me again (unless they wanted some more) and then there are other guys who would be like, "but...but...but we *kissed*! I now own you!" Expectations and biases depend on one's own experiences, it's up to you to draw a line in the sand based on your own comfort level (ethically and physically). I'm much more comfortable when I call the shots, so that's how it is with me, and I'm (mostly) completely unapologetic about it. Still, I try to do this in a completely respectful way.

I dunno :shrug:

I admit that there could be different dynamics involved because I'm the woman, but you and I are of the same age, Grisha, and I think things even out at this level. It's "understood" that everyone has similar levels of experience and thus as long as you're honest it's cool?

Esther
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21 Jan 2011, 1:15 pm

It's so easy for me to advise to just go with the flow, but I guess in Grisha's case it's an exception.

Wow, how can kissing be so complicated? :lol: The speed, the depth, the emotions behind it. Even I am confused now.

So the question is, how can one not kiss without offending the date and still relay the non-verbal message of interest?

Grisha
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21 Jan 2011, 1:25 pm

Quote:

I dunno

We may be the same age chronologically, but as far as dating experience goes, I'd say I'm half my age. :roll:

mv
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21 Jan 2011, 1:27 pm

Esther wrote:

It's so easy for me to advise to just go with the flow, but I guess in Grisha's case it's an exception.

Wow, how can kissing be so complicated? :lol:

The speed, the depth, the emotions behind it.

Even I am confused now.

So the question is, how can one not kiss without offending the date and still relay the non-verbal message of interest?

Esther, your profile says that you're an NT, so I hope I don't offend here...

With Aspies (at least with me and from what I've concluded after being here 6 months), there is no "flow." Such a creature does not exist for us. There is almost nothing "natural" about interaction with other human beings, especially at an intimate level. Everything, *EVERYTHING*, is unfortunately brain first.

I don't know how to answer your question. I always gauge things by ending a date with, "I had a great time, I hope we can do this again some time soon." But I only say that if I truly feel that way. Sometimes, if I'm on the fence, I'll go for a good night kiss (quick peck) just to see if the physicality changes things for me, one way or another. I have so much trouble connecting with people that at this point I just have to rely on my 30+ years of dating experience (yes, I've been dating since I was 11). But my experience may completely suck for another Aspie and not work at all. That's why I try to couch my discussion here in terms of opinion and gentle guidance, only. I hope that's how I'm coming across?

Grisha
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21 Jan 2011, 1:30 pm

Quote:

Wow, how can kissing be so complicated? :lol:

The speed, the depth, the emotions behind it.

Even I am confused now.

It's not...unless you're an Aspie!

I just don't want to hurt anyone, testosterone is very difficult thing to manage in these situations...

mv
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21 Jan 2011, 1:34 pm

Grisha wrote:

Quote:

Wow, how can kissing be so complicated? :lol:

The speed, the depth, the emotions behind it.

Even I am confused now.

It's not...unless you're an Aspie!

I just don't want to hurt anyone, testosterone is very difficult thing to manage in these situations...

Then I must have a lot of testosterone. (Kidding; I've given birth to two kids!)

Esther
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21 Jan 2011, 1:38 pm

No offense taken at all, mv. I was being mostly rhetorical in my last post.

I may be NT, but I don't have a lot of dating experience myself. I think that's why I want Grisha to succeed, so I can somehow live vicariously through his joy. Because I think to myself, if I as an NT am having so much trouble, then what more for an aspie?

Grisha
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21 Jan 2011, 1:43 pm

mv wrote:

Grisha wrote:

Quote:

Wow, how can kissing be so complicated? :lol:

The speed, the depth, the emotions behind it.

Even I am confused now.

It's not...unless you're an Aspie!

I just don't want to hurt anyone, testosterone is very difficult thing to manage in these situations...

Then I must have a lot of testosterone. (Kidding; I've given birth to two kids!)

Actually testosterone is responsible for at least a component of female sex drive too. It's frequently prescribed to women to increase post-menopausal sex drive.

I think that molecule is the root of all evil... :wink:

Moog
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21 Jan 2011, 1:48 pm

I used to play the field, but I've got a piano now.

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