Is there such a thing?

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I don't know what else to say other than reiterate what Bloodheart said, to just talk to women like you would talk to a man. That's fair enough. Have you tried hanging out at other places that is not commonly perceived as places where people might normally go to meet someone romantically/sexually - hardware store, farmer's market, park, ob-gyn office (joke)?

And Moog, are you actually interested in the women romantically or are you talking about a general interest in continuous talk? Do you have the same trouble when you're out with men or only when you're interacting with women?

The only additional advice I can think of right now for myself, as I've thought about it on and off today:
a) Keep with the people who know me and just displace the value on the fact that people who know me and care to know me do value my friendship a lot.
b) For the problem of being an unknown in public and being potentially taken as creepy, I'll cross my fingers and hope that the self-improvement activites I've been partaking in will sort of realign certain things in the core of just how I move, how my reflexes look, how my nonverbal communications stack up, etc. to where I won't feel like people are coming at me with suspicion off the starting line
Also
c) Even if I can't find someone who I both like as a person and have enough compatability and chemistry, I can always find someone who's perhaps very close to that and if we're both costing off to 40's singlehood we can be live in friends, not with benefits, but I mean try to give each other the support structure we're lacking even if the attraction is purely platonic.


I might just need to deal with myself and remind myself that its constantly there, no matter what I think or feel about it. In that sense being a little less vulnerable. As for the OB-GYN office, true, that would be about as good a drive stopper as having the little bar gremlins trying to sweet talk me with their brash over-embellished take on what they think guy talk is.

Semi-disagree with this. Leave yourself open to the possibilities of a romantic encounter.

OK, here's a little tip: Try going to the supermarket on a Sunday night. Chances are, you will see/meet a lot of single women there who are doing their shopping for the week ahead. The store is pretty dead and people can afford to take their time shopping. It's kinda relaxing in a way so people are more receptive to small talk. Maybe strike up a conversation with someone in the cereal aisle and talk about what muesli you like (I like Alpen, but I digress) or slip in how you're fantastic at such and such a recipe or if she has any suggestions for a dish. Pssssttttt, ok, I confess I did this last night. I got some milk and yogurt and if anybody had come up to me for a wee chat, I would have been totally open to it. No one did though, so, well, uhm, okay scrap that plan. Oh wait! I lie. A man did come up to me. The janitor did and asked if I could step aside so he could mop the floor.



This! Yeah, do that move! And play some Kodo while you're at it. Wa-chaw!



I have actually considered this myself. I'm usually so tired at the end of the day that all I look forward to is opening the door, removing my socks and turning the computer on and zoning out. Funny, but computer business at the office...BOO!! !! !... but more computer and internet at the apartment?! Three servings please!

The thought of dating exhausts me. It's like a second shift I can't give 100% to. But I would like the mutual enjoyment of a companion and a friend, so the idea of a housemate is very appealing. Doesn't matter if it's a man (so long as it's platonic) or a woman (unless it's Angelina Jolie then it won't be platonic). I think I'd be able to be a good support, too, like you mentioned.

I refuse to get a cat. Sorry, Grisha and to the cat-lovers who shall burn me at the stake.

Don't know if you all saw the movie 'ps. I love you' but i really liked the part where they are in the broom closet and he's been rude to her and sorta possibly creepy and she's about to bolt when he says "i have a syndrome' she says "and this syndrome makes you rude?" he gives like this sheepish grin and shakes his head and the ice was melted and they started to have a conversation:) ok so she ends up puking on his shoes but she didn't run away

Someone further up in the thread mentioned us wemon are on defense mode or somthing like that before we ever enter the place and this is the case with a lot of us. We've been hit on so many times it makes our heads spin so even if we seem totally turned off.. oh god not another one.. keep talking we might find after you havn't given up that your not just looking to hook up Or use humor if you can think of any we love that stuff.

We might also not be seeing you as creepy we might simply be trying to avoid the inevidable pick ups. Having said that before kids when i did go out I put the breaks on anyone who tried picking me up , cute, not, funny, obnoxious, creepy or strangely attractive because i went in with the assumption that i'll never meet anyone worth a damn in a bar.... I say this only because you might not be putting off the vibe you think, she might just be avoiding everyone.

Just imagine what it's like to be a woman especially if your nice looking... bars are like meat markets and we're the meat so it's not a wonder that we'd walk away or say no thanks or any number of things we just want to relax without the crap lol. Doesn't mean we dont want to meet someone or that in another place your same conversation wouldn't be taken in a whole different way so perhaps it's the place and not the conversation or you!! !

After my divorce my sons workers talked me into match.com lol I could have written a book about how funny that experience was. I went into it with the notion that I would go out with anyone who asked. I was trying to remember was it was like to be single and finding myself again I think . but anyway my advice to any of you is 'just be yourself' no matter how strange you might think you are.. ultimately the woman/man your looking for is the one who is going to like you just the way you are. All the things that you think might be negative qualities are positives to the 'right' person. Just go into every conversation without any preconceived idea that this might be someone i could date instead just that it's someone you'd like to know it makes a huge difference.

every single person in the world is different and what doesn't work with 10 might work with #11

I have this problem but I also have the opposite problem where women think I'm just being friendly when I'm trying to subtly come on to em. I send out backwards signals

"Men cannot be friends with women! They must either possess them or leave them be. It's all in Darwin." - Katherine Hepburn


That's probably utterly unhelpful, I just find it an interesting (and relevant) quote.

I think romantic interest never usually crosses my mind in a conscious way. If it does, I usually reckon it's beyond the bounds of probability that the person I am interested in is or could be interested in me.

I don't really have the resources to support a proper relationship anyway.

I wouldn't call it trouble, I think it would be more troubling if I was coming over as a drooling jackal to every woman I meet.

I think it would be ideal to simply be able to coast through life without getting the 'Your a disfigured monster' verdict when I neither wanted it nor asked for their opinion. In that context it feels little different than being accosted by another guy. I suppose it may be too much to ask that people hold that down because yes, likely, there's a P on one side, a V on the other, everything else about life aside from food water and shelter is something we fantasize into being and likely most of us who are different or misfit in some way technically would have already been dealt with in a more poignant society.

This makes me a sad panda. I would be pulling my pom poms out by now if only I didn't think the same. Maybe we should set the emlion sweetness monster upon us and she'll make us feel better with one of her fab cakes. How can we shake off this thinking, Mr. Moog? *hugs*



Don't drool. Be a suave jackal instead. I haven't seen the word "jackal" used in a long time. I like it.

I did not intend to make a poor me post, just giving my experience. I am sorry you feel that way too. I'm way over it. I do not make the pursuit of a relationship a primary part of my life. Like I say, I don't have the resources, and can't see that changing soon. I hope you feel better about yourself, or come to acceptance though. *hugs*



I don't drool, but neither do I sauve. Sauving is not part of my programming.

I had difficulty making that transition as well. Eventually I could talk to women and banter with them as if they were men and I could make direct passes at them but even when I was successful women would often say that they had no idea I had been interested.

I havent had to do this in a long time but iirc a very direct compliment is one way to change gears. For example I had a girl-buddy at work and remember her getting on the elevator and looking particularly hot. I said, "You look *very* nice today" and gave her a approving look. She blushed and our relationship changed. I couldnt pursue it as I was taken at that time but I remembered it. It was a valuable lesson in signals.

It sounds stupid to say it but, eh, that's the kind of lessons it took for me to figure stuff out.

I didn't read it as a poor me post. Feeling sorry for you is the furthest thing from my mind when I think about you. Still, learning that you think that way made me sad. The way it would make me sad if anybody else had said it. It sort of limits us, in a way, and closes us to potential chances.

I'm glad you've found peace with it. It's more of a twinge with me, nothing that a BBC period drama cannot cure. I'm okay overall. I accept your hugs. Thanks.