The PUA community

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I'm not a big fan of PU gurus, but the above is not entirely true. David Deangelo, for example, has stressed on the fact that it's the body language, voice tone, and other non-verbal factors that do the trick. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

Just thought I'd address this point because it's not fair to misrepresent what other people say.

Robert Greene's The art of Seduction.
It's not PUA but it contains all the basic theory behind PUA. It's written for both men and women, it's not sleazy but hardcore Machiavellian.
His other books are good too.

I've had fun viewing some of the PUA guides...

A lot of the lines and techniques the PUA advice don't appeal to me. Then again, I do have an Aspie habit of concentrating on people's words and missing a lot of other signals... Personally, I'm much more attracted to someone genuine, sincere, polite and witty than an overly confident alpha male. "Negging" especially is major a turn-off for me.

I've read chunks of 'The 48 laws of power'. I find the Machiavellian stuff interesting, but lacking in something fundamental to balance it. A compassionate angle, or something a bit less self obsessed. Transpersonal, as well as personal.

I think Taoist principles are pretty useful for applying to social relations.

Keep approaching women and develop a friendlier, warmer style. It's all non-verbals with head tilts, smiles, and flirty glances. Rejection is just a part of the game.

You could really kill it with the ladies if that's you in your avatar. You're good looking. That's like 70% of getting women, the rest is just having comfortable/confident non-verbals and being able to create the level 1 connection which is actually very easy.

Also, to the guy that asked if I don't believe in love: I'm actually a firm believer in love. It happens when you have a level 2 connection, the girl is very physically attracted to you, and you guys are in a committed relationship. That's love and it happens sometimes.

You'd better believe it, haha. And no, I'm not exactly what I would categorize as classically good looking. I look like Justin Long (the Mac guy in the Apple commercials).

It's not that surprising that girls would put up with my talk of depression or boring research when you consider how many otherwise respectable girls will date a drug dealer.

It's a pretty cool book, but really, love is not about consciously mindf*cking the girl and playing games with her head. I take the angle of being a really nice guy and being romantic with her.

Anything else would be atrociously fake coming from me. I like to indulge her in unexpected delights and be the best lover I can be. Since I have an ASD and ADD, there will be a psychological push/pull dynamic coming out of my behavior that I'm not even aware of. I'm plenty crazy and emotionally unpredictable, so there is no need to add anymore psychological dynamics to my relationships.

my take on PUA material is that aspects of it can be used in order to become more comfortable interacting socially, etc. my husband studied one of those books in order to help him hone his sales technique at work (or so he SAYS hahaha), and it was effective... but fundamentally dishonest. those kind of manipulations, when utilized to take advantage of people for sex or money, are evil as hell. how do you think the used person feels in the morning? continued...

PUA hurt other people just so they can get off or make a buck, and it is seriously not cool. there are some good and helpful tips for social situation that can be learned, but when used in the way they are intended, those techniques are pretty nasty.

Some really good replies guys.

But if we were to reject PUA as a possible source for learning proper social interaction with women, what will be the alternative?

Friends (or at least the few that I have)?

Family?

Apply the social learning theory and observe extroverted NTs?

Some really good replies guys.

But if we were to reject PUA as a possible source for learning proper social interaction with women, what will be the alternative?

Friends (or at least the few that I have)?

Family?

Apply the social learning theory and observe extroverted NTs?

Where we and the PUA community overlap is our search to learn social dynamics. They use it to either learn how to get a girl for a long lasting relationship or use this knowledge to sleep with as many girls as possible. So... social dynamics or image consultants are the way to go. If it advances your growth as a person, and your ability to make rich relationships with whoever you meet, and... can be applied to every area of your life (not just women), then it is worth while looking into. I personally would not to look to friends and family, but rather, to look outside of that people who do not accept you as you are off-the-back (unless you have family members or friends who are likable by everyone you see them meet, and are great at making successful relationships with strangers, then sure, model after them.)

Not all PUA material is bad by the way, there's a lot of really good stuff out there. I'll post some if I have a chance after work.

Yes the PUA community and dating coaches exist to make money off of your average man who wants a hot woman but can't seem to get one.

All those weight loss industries pray on average people too, everyone is in it just to make a buck off people these days.

sorry if i sounded too angry in my post. i understand the value in being able to read and understand and influence people, but i get upset by the idea that people could get hurt. i just think of the other half of the equation - the subjects targeted by those techniques in pickup situations, and it makes me a little sad.

however i do i think the PUA community can offer a great deal of valuable information, for sure.

myself, i read Body Language for Dummies, and it helped me somewhat.

I'd say How to Make Someone Fall in Love With You in 90 Minutes or Less by Nicholas Boothman, at least the older audio book version, haven't ready the newest print yet but probably it didn't change that much, was PUA free. Contains stuff about how to meet people, body language, level of disclosure as discussion goes on etc. How to Make Anyone Fall in Love with You by Leslie Lowndes, well it haves some good stuff about body language and discussion, but some sleazy stuff also, but it being written basically in list format, it is relatively easy to pick the tips you want, and to skip the stuff you found sleazy or risky and not fitting your style on next time you read it. Also it has some risky suggestions and stories, so not recommended to people who don't have already relatively good sense of what not to do. So just because she tells a story of her female friend who wanted first time with her then partner to be a "rape", don't go around suggesting that to everybody.

Nice.

I downloaded the PDF version of Lowndes' book and am starting to read it right now.

Edit: Why does she insist on calling one's romantic interest "quarry"? Very similar to how some PUAs refer to women as "targets".