Just started to date a guy with Aspergers

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One more question..so, you think that the fact that he initiated the contact is a sign that he is really interested?

OP, if he's kissing you hello and goodbye, he's interested. IMO, yes - you should absolutely reciprocate his contact.

Being involved with an Aspie man does require a lot of open communication, and you seem to be prepared for that. That level of communication will very likely extend to intimacy as well. As awkward as it may seem to you to discuss intimacy, you should be prepared to do that. Subtlety and hints will typically not produce common understanding between partners in an Aspie/NT relationship. (For the record, neither will manipulation.) Talking about what you like, need, desire - much more so than you would in an NT/NT relationship - is part of the bargain.

As far as whether "making the first move" is an accurate predictor of whether an Aspie man is capable of being a good partner, I couldn't disagree more. I've read countless accounts on this forum from men asking whether or not a woman is interested, when she clearly is. One of the symptoms of Asperger's is social awkwardness - an inability to read body language, facial expressions, etc. This can make it extremely difficult to see the "green light" a woman is signaling. IMO, a much better predictor of what makes an Aspie man a good partner is his willingness to learn - from his experience, from his partner, from his mistakes, etc. - and to adapt his behavior. Flexibility, his level of self-knowledge (understanding his own limitations, desires, interests), his willingness to accept that a relationship is a two-way street that requires compromise - these are much better predictors of what will make an Aspie man a good partner.

I applaud you for educating yourself, and for seeking counsel. Please keep in mind that the definitive book hasn't been written about Asperger's just yet. There's a lot that isn't known, and a lot of what is broadly accepted as fact is actually opinion (even in the academic world). Judge your man based on his character and his willingness to grow with you - those factors will provide much more reliable results than just about anything else. Good luck.

Hope Grows..In the beginning it seemed like he was really trying to see me, etc. It seems like since I became more interested he has backed off..normal? I havent been like overbearing or anything, but have made it clear that I like him and enjoy spending time with him.

Okay, the pattern of behavior I'm going to describe applies to some Aspie men - certainly not all of them. There are some Aspie men who are very attentive while pursuing a relationship with a woman. When they feel as though they've won her, the level of contact lessens. That can sometimes be a consequence of the misconception that women "require" a lot of attention to be "won," the misconception that women and/or relationships "fit in" to their lives, rather than the idea that relationships are actually pretty life-altering, etc.

I don't know if that's what's going on with your guy or not - you're probably going to have to explore this issue with him. Has he been in relationships before this one? He may legitimately not understand what you expect of him, or what other partners have expected of him in the past (in terms of frequency of contact). It may seem odd to discuss relationship "ground rules" like these, but it can absolutely be part of an Aspie/NT relationship. Don't waste your time worrying or wondering if he's still interested (Aspies may believe that when interest has been expressed, it should be assumed that the interest is continual - unless he/she states that he/she has lost interest). If he's lost interest, you need to understand that (although it seems kinda unlikely, based on what you've described). Talk with him about what you'd like, and ask him what he'd like. Personally, I think a lot of Aspie/NT relationships are smothered by the weight of unexpressed expectations.....you'll probably both be relieved after having the conversation. Good luck.

Yes: if we're too forward, we're pathetic perverts. If we slink back out of fear, we're pathetic loners.

Exactly: for a lot of Asperger's men it can so often be "do I want to sleep with this woman? Go for it!" but "am I ready to deal with anything that might come of this"?

The obvious answer and usually the safest one is the answer of the...

NO!

This is true, or they might just have married miserable whiny men without any sense of responsibilities. Asperger's does not equal being a complete child that needs to be babied. We can make decisions for ourselves. And in real life, most of mine tend towards the suspicious and the conservative.

So I started seeing this guy 10 seconds ago.

He sucks!

trying to copy and paste the part where I want to address and screwed it up..Bare with me please..He has been in past relationships but they havent been successful. Possibly because of lack of understanding of Aspergers. I just want to know if I will ever be able to know for sure if he is into me. I can do without someone being overly emotional and touchy feely if I know in my heart that there is a connection there, even possibly love.
Hope Grows, I appreciate so much your words of advice. You are helping so much. I have been wondering ALOT if he is still interested, then something happens and Im sure, then no communication or lack of invitation and then Im unsure again. I will totally take your advice and the next time we have the opportunity to have a lengthly discussion I will ask exactly what he would like and I will tell him what I would like. I guess I have nothing to loose, except my pride. I will feel bad if he looks at me like Im nuts, like he was only after friendship ya know? Thats my fear. I feel like Im a middle aged woman and I need to kinda know where Im going with this, whatever it may be. I dont want to put pressure on him at all, like I said I would welcome a friendship if that was all he was after, but he has lead me to beleive otherwise, which is why Im feeling like this. I just want to grab him and say "DO YOU WANT TO BE WITH ME OR NOT< JUST TELLLLLLLLL ME" LOL..I can take either answer, at least I'll KNOW what my next move should be instead of guessing.

Hey, Fatal-Noogie

Yes, I have a 16 yr old aspie godson, a couple of aspie man friends, an upstairs neighbor girlfriend and probably a couple of guys I work with. It makes me no expert but I am familiar.



What I'm going to say is not just my opinion; it's my personal experience, my observation in 40+ years of seeing relationships around me and the opinion of some relationship authors.* And by the way; I'm not particularly thrilled about it, being an assertive woman who has no problem going after what I want. And it's NOT about being traditional, I couldn't care less about that. It's about what works and what doesn't.

The way male/female mating relationships work is not exactly a double standard. There is burden & loss aplenty for both genders.

Men will court & bed women they are attracted to; many of whom they have no interest in having long term relationships with. Women, on the other hand will only date men they think they'd like to have a long term relationship with. As a consequence of this, women generally will be doing more rejecting than men. Some relationship experts say this; Men pick [the women they are attracted to], women choose [from the attracted men]. See, there's more burden on the men in terms of action but women have the burden of being attractive (which as you know, is not easy or even possible for all women).

Women want to and will put a lot of energy into their relationships with men. Men, not so much. A very common trajectory in mate relationships is that women often end up doing all the work in the relatioship; resulting in her becoming tired, frustrated, taken for granted and generally like a naggy old mother. Neither gender enjoys this. The smart women I know (still married and still in love) made their men work to court them and continue in subtle ways to not outwork their men in terms of effort in the relationship. As manipulative as this sounds; it works best for both genders. A guy who feels that he needs to step up in the relationship with his (non-naggy) woman, perpetually appreciates that which he continues to earn. Both genders enjoy this equasion when it works like this.

Is it unfair? I say fair & unfair is irrelavent in mating. Look, I have no problem attracting men. Some are attracted and they let me know. And I would chose a few of them, BUT something immediately happens; they start fishing to find out how old I am. I don't lie about my age. The moment they learn I'm over 50, my attractiveness vanishes. Even though they themselves are my own age; the concept of courting a 50+ woman seems to have zero appeal. I've experienced this for over eight years now with a number of nice men. Unfair? Does that even matter? There are no "shoulds" when it comes to attraction.

I have a friend my age who's fitter, sexier and more interesting than me. She attracts a LOT of men, then persues some of them and they have sex but they treat her like, well, a booty call... only. They will accept the dates she proposes then they stand her up, because, appearantly that part of the relationship is more work than they care to put into a 58 year old woman.

Double standard? Unfair? That's irrelavant when it comes to attraction. My friend spends a lot of time being heartbroken over the men she wants and puts so much work into. She keeps thinking that if she cares for them well enough they'll fall in love with her. That makes rational sense (she's an engineer and a pretty one). Not me, I have learned to accept what is and enjoy my life without a mate.

There's a mutual attraction between myself and one of the (probably) aspie men at work. I really enjoy his attention and conversation because he's a smart guy with an attractive unothodox style. Will he ask me out? Ask my age? I dunno. Unlikely, huh? Am I gunna ask him to my place for dinner? No way. I've learned to not set myself up for being taken for granted. I'm not bitter about it, I simply understand that men appreciate women they have to work to court; and I observe that this applies to all the men I know; NT & Aspie.

* John Gray, PhD - the Venus/Mars plethera of books
* Paul Dobransky, MD - The Secret Psychology of How We Fall in Love
* He's Just Not That Into You - I lent this book away, forgot the author's name

I would counter that the perspective you've offered is indeed your opinion, with the opinions of some pop-psych authors thrown in. There's nothing wrong with offering your opinion (or the opinions of those authors) - that's what this forum is here for. But when it comes to human relationships, we all need to understand the difference between opinion and fact; between what can be quantified and objectively measured - and what cannot.

I agree that a fairly equal amount of effort from both partners will likely result in a more satisfactory relationship for both, but how that equality is worked out isn't as simply predicted as your comments imply. There really isn't any single approach that works best for everyone. IMO, relationships develop best when each partner is allowed to bring their own natural talents and abilities to the relationship. How that breaks down along gender lines is really up to the individuals involved to define. That's just my opinion, however......

OP, you will know for sure if he is into you - but you'll probably have to ask him.

I don't think you have to qualify yourself as a "middle-aged woman" as the reason you want to know his intentions. I think pretty much every woman who is dating and knows men would want to know if a man she's interested in is interested in her. It's perfectly normal. So try to relax, and enjoy the process.

That's exactly why I don't believe in what I see as double-standards. They might "work" for most people, so they believe in them, but they don't work for me, and like you said, they don't work for you. When I'm 58 (assuming I survive that long in such a bizarre world) I'll still be open to date women older than me.

We all have our own problems and witness different things. My problems are not the same as yours or your friends' (not the ones you describe anyway). Women get used by men, but men also get used by women, and in my college environment neither case is rare.

As far as the party crowd goes, as the man, I'm expected to do things for a woman: give her a ride at ANY time of night (and remain sober enuf), run errands for beer and/or food (and pay for it), buy drinks for her (and her friends) at the bar, and then escort her home and protect her safety if she gets too drunk—all this on request or on whim from women I may have just met, but it doesn't matter—there's NO amount of effort I can put in to earn a relationship, romantic or sexual, because EVERY advance I make after all that gets rejected. In fact, every advance I have made has garnered nothing but lingering contempt and disgust against me. Half my friends said I need to remain gallant and generous, and play the gentleman. The other half said I was being used by these women. I said "f**k it all" and left the party scene.

If a woman volunteers to help a guy with ANY of those aforementioned things then asks for a relationship, she gets it! (even if it's not an ideal relationship) That's what I call a double standard.

As for the supposed need for women to remain "beautiful", that's another double-standard I resent. As a painter, I see the aesthetic aspirations of both men and women as severely lacking in imagination.

I wish you the best of luck in your relationships—I really do.

so, let me ask all of you something..with all the information I have supplied, and knowing that I am not after this guy for anything but spending time with him and getting to know him and enjoying him (not using him), should I maybe lay low and let him put more effort into getting to know ME? Am I blowing it by being so honest as to put my heart on my sleeve? It is human nature to pull away when someone is pulling toward you, and it may be the case here, whether his is Aspie or not. I know from what Hope Grows says that I may need to verbalize more than with the average NT, which is cool, but am I setting myself up to be hurt? I dont know. I think Im going to back off myself and see where it goes. If he is really interested in building something with me, maybe he does have to show some effort. Alot of effort in the beginning and then assuming that it should be understood is really not fair to me, no? That is like saying, ok, I've showed you I care for about 15 minutes, now for the rest of your life you will be starved of emotion. From our interaction, I think he is capable of a little more than what he is giving at this point. Maybe hes doubting himself, maybe fear and anxiety have come into play, but if we are even going to have the conversation about what either of us needs or wants, he's going to have to make that move.

gussiegirl, sorry about my irrelevant rant. When I said "used" I only meant in my personal life—no relation to your story (sorry if that impression came across).

I can't speak directly for him, but I consider honesty a virtue beyond reproach, and I think my fellow Aspies will back-me-up on this.

Isn't it a universal consensus that the very act of loving entails vulnerability, and the possibility of being hurt? Noone can play the game without some risk of loosing. (I know that doesn't answer your question, but that's a tricky question for me to answer.)