A Different Perspective On The "Need" For Relation

Post Reply New Topic

yeah, you're dating women who are still young enough to be extremely likely to change their minds. most people have kids eventually, so if you date someone of childbearing age there is a strong likelihood they will eventually want to procreate. it doesn't really make sense to date women in their prime childbearing years and expect they won't ever want kids, no matter their protestations on the matter.

if you are still looking to date, then perhaps go for older women - there are some who have not had kids and it is extremely unlikely they will change their minds over the age of 40. how old are you? perhaps women in your own age group would be the most logical ones to date anyways, as they may be more likely to have a similar mindset.

I would hazard a guess that many of the childfree persons that remain adamantly childfree throughout their lives are also autistic to some degree. It only makes sense to me because of "special interests" and aversion to sensory torture (like a baby crying). Maybe you should try to find a slightly autistic woman, then maybe your chances of finding the childfree ones would be greater? I think it's the NT ones that may start out childfree yet change their minds.

That's just a theory, though.

I think you may very well be right. The one gf I had who truly did not want kids, displayed a lot of the signs (although I only realized this in retrospect) of someone with AS.

You make another good point about the sensory torture -- there are few things that are as auditorially painful to me as a crying baby. Maybe someone who shared that little malady might be more reluctant to put themselves in a position where they would have to deal with it constantly!

Overall, I'm thinking I need to get away from entanglements with NTs anyway -- as it's repetitively evident that that sort of arrangement is simply not viable....

That's interesting--I've never noticed crying babies being really obnoxious before. Though then again, I really don't have many sensory issues.

I have problems with bright lights, and I have to wear dark glasses all the time. From a sound standpoint, people always talk about "nails on a chalkboard" being the worst kind of noise, but for me it's the crying baby. I think I would actually go completely insane if I had to listen to that for more than 15 seconds.

But you found one woman who was a great and interesting girlfriend, except for her inability to commit (which you seem to share, with most women). That, alone, puts you ahead of most of us on here, so would you truly rather have had none of your relationship experience, including that one? Or are you confident that you could have, and should have, told the difference between the one who truly didn't want kids and the others, before trying relationships with them?

I've really given this a lot of thought (as there are days when I really have little else to do!) and I'm kind of on the fence about the one "good" one. There were a lot of good times with her, and I miss her. On the other hand, I do sometimes think I'd be better off if I had never met her in the first place. I go back and forth on this one.

The others were unmitigated wastes of time and I would have been better off spending all of that time in a narcoleptic coma.

But I also wanted to say something about the commitment issue. It isn't that I have a commitment issue, per se, it's that (outside of the "good" one) I have never been able to find a girlfriend who doesn't try to change me into mainstream-blah-Mr-dad-guy. I actually like the idea of a commitment very much -- it's just that I'm not about to commit to someone whose entire agenda is based on the concept of turning me into a domesticated farm animal.

And the only one who I definitely could have committed to, was (and has always been) unable to make a commitment and live up to it.

Well, what have you lost by your experiences with her?
Obviously you have gained the realization that there is at least one woman like her in the world, and that it was possible for you to meet her while you were still relatively young. That's more than I can say about my search for a girl right now--sometimes I truly wonder whether I will meet a fascinating, creative woman who is attracted to me while I still have my youth to exlore with her.

I could see a potential drawback being that she increased your standards in regards to other women. I've had that happen--every time after I'm rejected by a woman I really like, I realize how I didn't really like many of the other women I'd pursued in the recent past that much. I went from being desperate for sex/intimacy with anyone, to desperate to find a particular type. It takes a while to go back to the "any slightly attractive female will do" mentality, which may be a good thing, but may cost me some experience that could put me on the way to find that fascinating, cute, quirky girl I'm looking for.



I see. I am totally not into commitment right now, I'm into exploration.

When I get older, I do think I will want a woman who takes care of me, which will mean that the relationship, including my role, will probably be more "domesticated". Even then, I could very much do without kids, unless my mindset changes by then.

For now, I want a relationship that as much as possible parallels a kind of middle-school-typical relationship, the kind I missed out on, except with lots of mental depth involved. This will need a quirky woman who spends lots of time in her head, yet probably one very inexperienced in the real world, at least in relationships.

Time. Lots of time. Time I could possibly have been using for something else that might, in the long run, have been more positive or more helpful. It's all hypothetical at that point, I know, but I can't help regretting the time I put into that relationship.

Hope. Since I already know that most girls will never have any desire to maintain a relationship with a guy who has no interest in babies and booze, it crystallizes the reality that my options for a partner are going to be extremely limited. Maybe she is the only "compatible" person I will ever meet. I don't know. But the indicators aren't good.

There has been a lot of pain involved, too. I'm not particularly masochistic, and I'd rather avoid pain to whatever extent possible.

Re: the standards issue, I did have a problem when I was younger, in that I basically had NO standards! It was "whoever walks in the door next, she's the one," and that's fine for the very short-term scenario, but never panned out over the long haul.

As I experienced more, I found out more and more about what I DON'T want -- which thinned out the pool.

As it turns out, I have now thinned out the pool enough so that there is apparently no one in it.

As for your comment "except with lots of mental depth involved. This will need a quirky woman who spends lots of time in her head, yet probably one very inexperienced in the real world, at least in relationships," I'd have to say I'm seeking something along those same lines.

The problem for me -- on dating sites, at least -- is that there is very little intellect on display. Profiles are usually either empty, or just strings of vapid cliches. Everything revolves around biology, inertia, greed, and self-destructiveness. There is nothing stimulating to work with.

I once used the line "I'm looking for a girl who's more interesting than the ingredients list on the Planters Peanuts jar," and a lot of people liked the line (and have probably stolen it!), but it also happens to be true!

Believe me, the time was well spent, at least with the interesting girlfriend.

I have spent (and am still spending) lots of time developing my intellect, and therefore hopefuly my ability to get a career in the sciences. However, lately I have discovered more and more that the thing holding me back from such a career is absolutely not lack of time spent thinkign about the subject--I have spent far more than most other graduate students in the field, possibly as much as some professors. However, I have never developed the ability to work with others, and possibly even far more importantly, a tolerance for the mundane and routine.

It has become clear that, especially at this point in my career, I simply cannot expect my work to be the highest expression of my intellectual creativity--nor would I want it to be. Because I will need to make compromises, and there is a lot about work even in intellectual fields that is not idealistic/"romantic". So, my biggest problem is that I don't have the emotional skills to rein in my ambition, and also sometimes simply cannot focus on my work due to the gaping holes in other areas of my life.

It is occurring more and more that social/emotional development is far more difficult to catch up on late than intellectual and/or career skills. The latter can be learned alone, by reading, or by taking classes that one can take as easily at age 55 as at age 25. In contrast, finding people who are 10+ or even 20+ years behind in their emotional development, to allow a relationship that is reasonably balanced in terms of what her and I want, seems incredibly difficult, because the only women like that may be those who are literally sitting in their rooms looking out the window and hoping for an interesting single guy to walk by.

In addition to relationship experience being important for feeling up to speed oneself, I feel it's important to develop the necessary empathy in order to not hurt people once one finally does find a partner. Without having developed this, it seems possible to even unintentionally take out years of frustration on the first woman who falls hard for you, or is willing to show sympathy.

So I would consider yourself VERY fortunate to have had all the experience that you've had, and that you're not almost 40 and have still never had a girlfriend and/or be a virgin. It will be much, much easier to put time into developing the other, neglected areas of yourself, than it would have been to look for your first girlfriend at your age if you had a stellar career and tons of hobbies. Trust me.



Have you tried OKCupid? I find that profiles on there tend to be interesting, but unfortunately most women still fail to respond even on there when I try to start an interesting conversation. I've found that women who develop sexual or romantic attraction based primarily on being intellectually stimulated seem even rarer than those who simply like to have such conversations.

I've had an account on OKC since 2006. Good site for tests and quizzes and matching questions (I've answered all 4000+ of the matching questions) but not particularly useful for finding potential partners. Lots of locals but they all have kids (or desperately "need" to).

I did meet someone from OKC not long after joining -- she was from New York, and eventually drove all the way out here to see me. She was not at all who she presented herself as on line. It was a horrendous experience and one I would never hope to repeat.

The real problem I've seen on OKC is that the women's profiles (the local ones I've read) all reek of "trying too hard." I'm independent, I don't need a man, I see the glass as half full, no game players need apply, look at me, I'm all hardass and tough and nobody is ever going to hurt me again. Yawn. Nothing at all really about the person, it's more of a peripheral description of a fictional facade.

I've come to the conclusion that the kind of person I'm looking for either a.) doesn't exist, or b.) doesn't use dating sites. If b.) is true, I've got a bit of a dilemma, as I have no way to meet people in real life!

It's all very well to state that relationships aren't the most important thing, but for a lot of people here it's not really a choice. Sure, if we could be successful at the game of love, we could make a more informed choice about whether or not we want to bother participating in it.

But there's so many rules to learn and personal qualities to improve that we often feel really down about our lack of success and chalk it down to our own personal failings. That's why there's so much negativity here.

I can understand that, and I sympathize with those who haven't had the opportunity to be in relationships at all. I'm just saying sometimes people might be better off not having had the experience. It's just as bad (if there's any way to assign "levels" of good and bad to this sort of thing, which there isn't) to go through a series of relationships, one after another, just to find out there isn't anybody worthwhile out there.

What I find interesting is the vehemence by which many staunch childfree people INSIST that they will NEVER change their minds, and become furious with anyone who dares suggest that they never will.

If the people are autistic, then it is probably true, it is rare that an autistic person changes their mind about something that they are that sure of.

That would leave the Neurotypicals as the ones that would possibly change their minds (and do).

So then of course people would be confused at a person who is vehemently "I'm NEVER having ANY kids, EVER" because they're used to Neurotypicals who have said that and then 10-15 years down the road (or so) they end up having kids. I think maybe this should be explored and studied in greater detail.

I agree completely! Someone should study that!

But my real issue isn't with people who change their minds, although that does cause some problems.

My real issue is people who lie from Day One, claiming they don't want kids, when they really DO want kids all along, and are only TELLING me they don't as a way to get a relationship started. This makes no sense to me. I won't be changing my position on this until several years after I'm dead, at the soonest. I mean, if you want kids, go find someone who wants kids. I can't help with that part.

As I've never dated anyone other than NTs (with the one possible exception, and that's merely guesswork on my part), it does seem like that's something I should probably stop doing.

yeah, the whole lying and keeping it secret hoping YOU'D change your mind is one of those things where I guess the person thought you were the one, the only one, and hoped above hope that you'd change YOUR mind.

I know of one person who never wanted kids who ended up being badgered into at least agreeing to spawn. Spawning has not occurred yet but I can tell from what the person's said that there will be a deep-seated resentment brewing.