PUA Scams

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Joined: 7 Nov 2011
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08 Nov 2011, 10:25 pm

I can't speak for other PUA's, but I really like David DeAngelo's material. He goes well beyond what typical PUA's teach.

1000Knives
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09 Nov 2011, 1:43 am

minervx wrote:

if someone wants to contact thousands of women every month i think they may have the same success rate using just about any technique (asking random women out whilst... riding a unicycle? playing banjo? simply asking for sex?)

I'd honestly bet money that the bango and riding a unicycle success rate would probably be about 1/25 or less, simply because the girl will admire said man's balls of steel and instantly want to have his babies.

tronist
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09 Nov 2011, 5:45 am

discrediting all information PUA's have / use / profess is NOT optimal, i assure you.

you take from it what you will, and you use it. for me, i think it worked quite well. theres a LOT of GOOD things to be learned from PUA's. that being said, obviously not 100% of the information is valid, optimal, or necessary to find a relationship.

im certainly glad i stumbled upon a lot of information regarding said topic. its helped me out a bunch!

mds_02
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09 Nov 2011, 8:03 am

There are two basic PUA lessons (probably more, but these are the worthwhile ones) that are very helpful to remember.

The first is to demonstrate your value. If you show that you are worth being pursued as a romantic partner, then she will feel flattered that you have chosen to pursue her.

The second is to not get too hung up on any one girl. If you get a negative response, then you slap a band-aid on your ego and try someone else.

Of course, when they try to teach you how, the whole thing goes to s**t. Every guy needs to find his own way to do these things.

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Last edited by mds_02 on 09 Nov 2011, 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

NotQuiteThere
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09 Nov 2011, 8:13 am

What ever happen to "Hi how are you?" and then just going with the flow from there.

I mean really any sort of attempt at having a strategy for "Picking UP!" is just ludicrous, not to mention outright disrespectful, irregardless whether they are male or female.

PUA is a scam as far as I'm concerned, just as bad as "All nice guys finish last", don't get me started on the hole alpha male BS.....

Sorry if that offends some, but that's just my two cents.

Ancalagon
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09 Nov 2011, 8:48 am

tronist wrote:

discrediting all information PUA's have / use / profess is NOT optimal, i assure you.

Of course. Doing the exact opposite of *everything* PUAs say is definitely dumb. For example, they tell you to bathe. That's good advice, and if you ignore it, you're almost guaranteed not to get the girl.

That doesn't mean the rest of their advice is good. You can't treat their entire system of advice as a single monolithic thing that can't be broken apart and is either all right or all wrong.

My opinion is that there is good advice in there, but that there is enough bad advice that it would be better to get your relationship advice elsewhere.

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SoftlyStepping
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09 Nov 2011, 11:51 am

mds_02 wrote:

The first is obvious. The second is controversial. The people who disagree have more romantic troubles.

mds_02 wrote:

Of course, when they try to teach you how, the whole thing goes to sh**. Every guy needs to find his own way to do these things.

I actually don't know the details of what this looks like. Maybe I should be afraid

I do know that "shy guys" are the ones that look for this kind of advice.
And anything. Anything. Anything that gets them actually talking with women is better than just reading s**t online. A clear "call to action," so to speak.

I think someone with Aspergers tend to leave programs later than regular folk. Leaving with experience is a good idea.

hyperlexian
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09 Nov 2011, 12:43 pm

mds_02 wrote:

The second is to not get too hung up on any one girl. If you get a negative response, then you slap a band-aid on your ego and try someone else.

yes and no. depends on whether the goal is sex or a relationship.

if a man does not see females as distinctly individual humans, he will not get into a relationship with them very easily. PUA stuff focuses on the interchangeability and disposability of women, which runs counter to the idea of two humans connecting.

of course there is a balance in there. "oneitis" is not a good strategy for a meaningful future relationship, but neither is the PUA approach of seeing women as non-individuals.

but for sex, i am coming to believe thoroughly that eventually anything will work if you approach enough women.

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SoftlyStepping
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09 Nov 2011, 2:50 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

if a man does not see females as distinctly individual humans, he will not get into a relationship with them very easily. PUA stuff focuses on the interchangeability and disposability of women, which runs counter to the idea of two humans connecting.

of course there is a balance in there. "oneitis" is not a good strategy for a meaningful future relationship, but neither is the PUA approach of seeing women as non-individuals.

So bring 'em from one extreme to the other, and eventually they'll find the middle ground.

Tip-toeing away from clingyness rarely works.

What level of commitment is emotionally healthy, at what point in the relationship. "Disposable" is an important philosophy for casual dates. She doesn't like you? Go find another. One that you can connect with in a meaningful way.

Sex for sport is superficial. It helps build confidence. Take out the sex aspect and you've got the sport down.

mds_02
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10 Nov 2011, 8:37 am

NotQuiteThere wrote:

What ever happen to "Hi how are you?" and then just going with the flow from there.

I've tried that. A lot. The problem, for me and a lot of other guys, is that the flow never seems to lead anywhere.

hyperlexian wrote:

I agree with you. But I will point out that desiring and pursuing a relationship with a woman before you've gotten to know her is a terrible idea. The things I've pointed out as being valuable are only useful when making the initial approach with a woman you don't know yet. The whole "don't get too hung up on one girl" thing refers to that, not to a girl that you've gotten to know better and now want to get serious with.

I actually agree with this:

Ancalagon wrote:

My opinion is that there is good advice in there, but that there is enough bad advice that it would be better to get your relationship advice elsewhere.

But I figure we may as well try to figure out what good advice these guys have to offer, then discard the rest.

tronist
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10 Nov 2011, 6:35 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

You can't treat their entire system of advice as a single monolithic thing that can't be broken apart and is either all right or all wrong.

i agree 100%

NotQuiteThere
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11 Nov 2011, 4:19 am

Granted the flow may not lead any ware, that is a very valid point.

What I'm getting at is that if you ground you're self in a healthy way and focus on self-improvement rather than the desire or need to be socially accepted in any way shape or form in the "normal" sense, you will more often than not find that you suddenly become attractive.

I mean which is more attractive, form ether a male or female perspective?

The moaning self defeatist who constantly undermines him/herself with comments like "I'm ugly" or "No one would ever love me".

Or

The persona who is calm and collected and is grounded and realistic and is often quoted as......

"I'm not perfect but I'll give it a shot and if it doesn't work I wont be a crappy person about it".

I'm not attacking any one, because we all go through at some stage both sides of that coin, but really when does one take a step back after constant rejection and actually take stock in an objective manner to the where, why and how of the situation?.

Any way flame me if you want, just my two cents.......

hyperlexian
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11 Nov 2011, 10:44 am

^^^^yes.

SoftlyStepping
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11 Nov 2011, 9:12 pm

NotQuiteThere wrote:

What I'm getting at is that if you ground you're self in a healthy way and focus on self-improvement rather than the desire or need to be socially accepted in any way shape or form in the "normal" sense, you will more often than not find that you suddenly become attractive.

The self-improvement specified for men is the mechanics of initiating a romantic contact. Usually with women who are not necessarily trying to be attractive.

The man is the verb. The woman either simply exists, or is trying to attract him.

ICY
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13 Nov 2011, 12:22 pm

NotQuiteThere wrote:

If that’s 2 cents you have a very strong currency.

deconstruction
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13 Nov 2011, 12:33 pm

Ugh. I hate PUAs with a passion. (Not as human beings, I'm sure deep down they are ok). But I hate this behavior. I hate it with a passion.

Frankly, it's sick to see NTs doing it, let alone a fellow Aspie. It's so... Beyond words how ugly it is. And I don't even know where to start with it.

One of the main problems is that it makes men seem desperate. Not a good way to find a girl. Plus, it's sexist and it makes men treat women like objects.

Men need to understand that approaching women out of nowhere rarely works for anybody because women are humans and don't want to be harassed by a random stranger they meet on the street. (Maybe not even at a club). Women want to be wanted for who they are, and a guy needs to initiate a romantic contact because he likes THEM as individuals, not because they happen to have a vagina (and a decent physical appearance).

That's why women like flirting, but not outward approach. That's why women like to talk to you as acquaintances but don't want to be seen as sexual objects. I mean, who would want that?

Cold approach is not just an Aspie problem. NTs don't have much luck with it either. It's because it's an unnatural way to approach a girl. It's because men who do it often aren't interested in women as friends or acquaintances; they often don't see them as equal fellow human beings.

I know it's more difficult for an Aspie to have friends than for a NT, but that should be everybody's natural way of meeting new people. Not jumping on random strangers with some PUA crap.

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