Aspie males are notorious for putting themselves down.

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PTSmorrow
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12 Dec 2011, 11:13 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:

Here is the thing that I don't grasp. If I truly had a chance to succeed in any endeavor then how do my thoughts matter whether they are positive or negative? Is there an objective reality outside of ourselves? If there is an objective reality outside of ourselves then it doesn't matter what negative thoughts I have had or still have. It doesn't matter what my feelings are. The underlying assumption is that thoughts create reality. If this is so then how can logic and science be valid and sound at all?

Which is it? Does my perception of reality create thoughts whether they be positive, negative, or other or does my thoughts create reality itself or does it create only my perception of reality? How do we truly determine what reality is so all of our thoughts can be in sync with it?

There is no objective reality outside. And you can't grasp it by using the thought pattern of cause and effect, which would mean A causes B or B causes A.

It is a permanent interaction between our minds and what we call the outside reality, a constant stream of energy.

Due to our perception of time, however, we tend to cling to the notion of cause and effect.

The-Raven
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12 Dec 2011, 11:14 am

SadAspie112 wrote:

I have extreme social phobia, extreme social anxiety and paranoia. Avoidance seems to be my best method of coping with things. I avoid experiencing more anxiety inducing experiences by simply staying inside my house most of the day. Any interaction with people makes me feel agitated and feels like a huge effort. I often come across as angry and annoyed. I usually try to avoid talking to people unless I need to.

The computer has become the main means of me communicating with the outside world. I do not really like face to face interaction.

This is me exactly. I think it makes relationships impossible. Ive read all sorts of books and had therapy but nothing has helped. Im resigned to my fate now.

cubedemon6073
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12 Dec 2011, 11:44 am

PTSmorrow wrote:

cubedemon6073 wrote:

This makes no sense to me. If there is no objective reality outside then how can we determine what anything truly is. This means I can say that 2+2 does not equal 4 in the base 10 number system. Why can't we get rid of all of this subjective and relativistic BS?

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 12 Dec 2011, 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

MR20
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12 Dec 2011, 11:45 am

I'm not "putting myself down" it's just reality. I can only react to what I see. I know I'm ugly, slow, stupid, unattractive, uneducated, un-charismatic, and poor. I have no skills and/or useful talents. I lack mental toughness.

I've been a hermit for the past few years, basically never leaving the house and just concentrating on my interests. (porn, anime, and video games)

I can barely bathe and take care of myself, (and this is while living AT home) I can't drive, and I don't have a job.

I'm 25 and I've never dated, and I don't have any friends. I don't have any kind of prospects for a good future. I'm a pathetic bum and a loser. I also have to deal with depression, loneliness, bitterness, despair and suicidal thoughts every so often.

I don't have low self esteem, as that would imply than I'm better that how describe myself. It isn't true. I'm being completely about myself, and anyone that's hung with me for an extended period of time would probably say the same thing.

I can't lie to myself so that I can feel better, that's douchebag-ish and egotistic.

PTSmorrow
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12 Dec 2011, 12:30 pm

[quote="cubedemon6073"

This makes no sense to me. If there is no objective reality outside then how can we determine what anything truly is. This means I can say that 2+2 does not equal 4 in the base 10 number system. Why can't we get rid of all of this subjective and relativistic BS?[/quote]

No. Within a number system or as far as laws of nature and natural sciences go, there is predictability and it's also useful to think in the pattern of cause and effect. But if you would try to apply the same principles to more complex topics, it would block development and the possibility to change.

DetestableInsect
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12 Dec 2011, 12:34 pm

I do think my low self opinion is partly a defense mechanism against responsibility, expectations, and the huge let down that would come with failure. So it's partly objective self-assessment but also a way to weasel out of adult burdens.

I know a solution is to actively work to change myself, but paradoxically I don't believe I have the constitution necessary to execute the changes.

NoMrCollins wrote:

All everyone tells me is to just go out and try over and over until I figure it out. You don’t gain confidence by trying and failing over and over again. You gain confidence by trying and succeeding.

Agreed completely, this has been my experience as well.

PTSmorrow wrote:

I fully believe in cause and effect-that is determinism. Do you have any links to a more in-depth presentation of this theory?

DetestableInsect
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12 Dec 2011, 12:35 pm

PTSmorrow wrote:

No. Within a number system or as far as laws of nature and natural sciences go, there is predictability and it's also useful to think in the pattern of cause and effect. But if you would try to apply the same principles to more complex topics, it would block development and the possibility to change.

So cause and effect is true, it's just too complex to consider when making choices?

DetestableInsect
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12 Dec 2011, 12:41 pm

MR20, again I would like to reiterate my suggestion of medication. I think if you get on enough meds all of these problems won't bother you as much. And tasks are easier (I've found) if you aren't so depressed - which may lead to some changes in your life.

It's a band-aid solution, but it's the best remedy I've found.

cubedemon6073
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12 Dec 2011, 12:42 pm

DetestableInsect wrote:

PTSmorrow wrote:

So cause and effect is true, it's just too complex to consider when making choices?

I agree.

techstepgenr8tion
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12 Dec 2011, 12:42 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

nick007 wrote:

I don't put myself down; the world puts me down instead. I do feel fairly good about myself but the problem is that others do not. I am not highly confident but I do not have the low self-esteem that others assume I have. I have lots of issues/problems/limitations due to my AS & physical disabilities. I am aware of how others are not accepting even thou I feel fairly good about myself

That's why I'm thinking the whole "Just be more confident" advice often times seems off-point. I know I had plenty of times myself where people could have cared less what I thought of me; what mattered to them was what they thought and, often enough, they adamantly disagreed with what I thought of myself when I was at a stage in my life where I did feel like a big somebody.

I think the push should really just be people looking at those who are long-term single as normal, not pushing them, not riding them, not trying to make movie script drama in their own minds about why this person is where they are (and worse - occassionally gettin reckless IRL with that kind of fanciful thinking). Technically if we want to be honest, where anyone is in this world is technically not their fault; and that applies to just about anything let alone relationship status which often times you can't even tack to behavioral merrit or lack thereof. Similarly if a guy or girl is a long term single - no one owes them anything in terms of a relationship (likewise we'd hate the results if they thought they did and acted on it) and, reciprocally, they really shouldn't owe anyone else's anxiety or paranoia any service either. If people like some of the more prolific L&D posters find people - great, I don't think its necessarily impossible either, but it seems nonsensical for them to beat themselves up over not finding anyone either.

I wish more people would attempt to try to determine what objective reality was instead of just going by their own opinions and feelings. Can we please go by facts and logic?

Can you be a bit more specific in what you're asking for?

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cubedemon6073
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12 Dec 2011, 12:47 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

cubedemon6073 wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

nick007 wrote:

I wish more people would attempt to try to determine what objective reality was instead of just going by their own opinions and feelings. Can we please go by facts and logic?

Can you be a bit more specific in what you're asking for?

An objective way to determine what a person is capable of doing without any attitude getting in the way whether it is positive or not. In a way, it seems similar to the placebo effect. How do we get our attitude, feelings and emotions out of the equation and truly determine what we can and can't do? Are there scientific and objective test that can be performed to determine what a person is capable of in general? If yes, can they be created. My goal is to remove as much bias as much as possible.

techstepgenr8tion
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12 Dec 2011, 1:01 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Can you be a bit more specific in what you're asking for?

An objective way to determine what a person is capable of doing without any attitude getting in the way whether it is positive or not. In a way, it seems similar to the placebo effect. How do we our attitude, feelings and emotions out of the way and truly determine what we can and can't do? Are there scientific and objective test that can be performed to determine what a person is capable of in general? My goal is to remove as much bias as much as possible.

Good luck. You're dealing with a Byzantine and self-interest corrupted process that has a ridiculous array of variables. Personally I'm a full determinist, whether we're thinking on a Newtonian platform or even on some of the newer Qunatum models - so from that standpoint I'm already coming from a direction where I firmly believe 'potential' to be like 'probability'; really a man-made concept and one where, I think more realistically, your environment will either let you shine or it won't. I don't want to get into all the crazy things that having frail and faultily-replicating 'genes' does to life forms of all shapes and sizes or the cruelty that this inflicts on living systems (almost by necessity) but suffice to say that a lot of people's need to falsify, put up false pretense, etc.. As much as people feel like they need to bluff in order to not show weakness (in order to get what they want from the world around them), they find the need to then compell that need onto the people around them - particularly people they care about.

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mv
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12 Dec 2011, 1:04 pm

DetestableInsect wrote:

I know a solution is to actively work to change myself, but paradoxically I don't believe I have the constitution necessary to execute the changes.

This is pretty much where I am in my self-assessment, too, but I think microchanges still occur for me. I have good "epiphany days", as I've come to call them. It's just almost geologically slow...

techstepgenr8tion
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12 Dec 2011, 1:16 pm

mv wrote:

DetestableInsect wrote:

I know a solution is to actively work to change myself, but paradoxically I don't believe I have the constitution necessary to execute the changes.

This is pretty much where I am in my self-assessment, too, but I think microchanges still occur for me. I have good "epiphany days", as I've come to call them. It's just almost geologically slow...

I had a lengthy and somewhat over-the-top experiment with this about ten years ago in my early 20's. What I found out: I couldn't completely rewrite and taylor myself to what I found expedient in the society I lived in - didn't matter how much effort I put in, there are some very definite brick walls and points where certain things literally cannot be improved without that improvement being erased and reset by sleep. You can work on areas where you have much more potential than you've realized, however life-long difficulties will rarely ever be reversible. The best I hope for with my own life long challenges is just to get enough achievement in other areas where they're neutralized somewhat when it all averages out.

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12 Dec 2011, 1:20 pm

I dont think ive put myself down. Others seem to have done quite a damn good job at it.

cubedemon6073
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12 Dec 2011, 1:44 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

mv wrote:

DetestableInsect wrote:

I know a solution is to actively work to change myself, but paradoxically I don't believe I have the constitution necessary to execute the changes.

This is pretty much where I am in my self-assessment, too, but I think microchanges still occur for me. I have good "epiphany days", as I've come to call them. It's just almost geologically slow...

Is there a way to obtain the report of this experiment?

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