nature of attraction

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And what of the millions of women who are "chunky", overweight, "chubby", and, yes, even obese who are fertile while men reject them to chase an aesthetic ideal which in all reality requires women to be so unhealthy they become infertile? Call that whatever you might want to, but don't call it evolutionarily-driven, when it's just the opposite.

I don't menstruate south of 140 or 150 (I'm 5'1"), which was about 30 lbs ago-
I topped out at 215, no fertility problems then.

The difference is that now that I lack the amount of body fat required to sustain a pregnancy (ovulate) I get hit on constantly,
whereas before men didn't want anything to do with me.

Body fat is absolutely required for a woman to be fertile, and the amount for many woman cuts well into the "normal" category of weight based on the BMI, up into the overweight range for some. Obesity can disrupt endocrine systems and hormone levels, but usually only at extremely high weights, and often, not even then.

One of the theories behind the US's problem with underaged pregnancies is that, unlike the other first world countries it's being compared with, American girls reach a certain body fat percentage very early on in life. Young, nubian prepubescent types are en vogue because next to no one looks like that, but if anything fat is CORRELATED with fertility.

Ignorance about female anatomy aside, so what if there was an evolutionary reason for certain traits to be more attractive than others to men? That still wouldn't change that whining about your luck in dating while refusing to date the majority of women in your country based on how much space they take up is going to elicit more than a few LOL's.

Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 19 Apr 2012, 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A woman is at her most fertile when close to her ideal body fat pecentage (23,1%) or one standard deviation higher or lower. Studies have shown that fertility decreases significantly is she's more than 40 lbs overweight, even if she's ovulating normally.

I'm not whining about lack of success, nor do I refuse to date most women in my country. I refuse to date an unattractive women because I'm not unattractive myself. The desire itself to have sex is driven by natural instincts, thus the instincts who tell me to seek out a fit mate should not be supressed; no men who "settle" are ever content with their current relationship.

Based on...statistical averages, I'm assuming?

You do know being TEN pounds overweight disqualifies a woman from dating many men who are fat-phobic, right?

Using "instinct" as an excuse isn't something you can really rationalize nowadays. We no longer live in a state where survival is much an issue at all. Only ever have insignificant first world problems. Being conceited about your appearance will only make you that much more ugly.

That's fine, so long as you're not hypocritical. I can't imagine not dating someone because society has assigned them a different "class" level based on whatever aesthetic feature is the flavor of the decade, but all right.

"Fit" means different things at different times, depending on the evolutionary pressures of the environment, hence fat being eroticized when everyone is starving and pathologized when most are overweight.

What of the people who don't care what a potential partner looks like, or whether they're fat?
Are they "suppressing instincts" simply because they differ from you?

No women are disqualified for being 10 lbs overweight. If a girl who's slightly chubby is turned down, it's because of other factors.

A LOT of men like it if a girl is 10-20 lbs overweight. On the other hand, very fes boys over 15 find Paris Hilton attractive.

attractiveness is subjective...what's attractive to you isn't attractive to everyone, and here's the real shocker.......you might not be attractive to all women .

In other words, in Norway where food is plentiful, obesity is not attractive.



Yes. I've never met anyone who genuinely didn't care about how their partner looked.

It doesn't bother me. I know for a fact that I meet what criterias are commonly considered physically attractive. It's impossible to please everyone, though.

Right, so this study groups "normal" weight women with overweight ones, even though many men refuse to date overweight women, and even among obese women in the study, the majority still became pregnant.

This says nothing of the other end of the question, which is how do the fertility rates of women based on BMI match up with men's preferences in women based on BMI? Either the majority of American women are infertile, or men have stopped making dating choices based on fertility.


Uh...are you serious? I have been, before, and was directly-told that was why.
The kicker?
I was 20 lbs UNDER what I'd have to be, to be overweight.
You really don't seem to be aware of how toxic the dating culture is for women who aren't incredibly thin.
I'm on a dating site and more men than not answer "Would you date an overweight woman?" in the negative, most of those selecting the "Even if they were slightly overweight" option. Dating sites tend to be more superficial than other areas of culture, but to say men prefer OVERWEIGHT women to UNDERWEIGHT ones really doesn't jive with anything that can be said to cater to male sexual fantasy.


Yeah...I think we live on different planets.

But then again, they're less likely to get pregnant.



You're missing my point. If an American man were to choose between a "regular" woman and a physically fit woman for sex, his instincts would tell him to pick the latter.

Furthermore, most 20-something women are NOT 40 lbs overweight.




A male underwear model has a bodyfat percentage of 8, a female underwear model has a bodyfat percentage of 20. To get a body like a Playboy Bunny, jog for three hours a week. To get a body like Hugh Jackman, a man has to make exercise a religion for two years.

Almost all women my age between 100 and 200 lbs are taken, thus a slightly overweight woman will still find a partner easily.




When was Lindsay Lohan considered the most attractive, back when she was within the healthy bodyfat range or after she ecame a skinny addict?

Where I live, most of them are likely at least 20 lbs overweight, and many men refuse to date such women.
That was my point: a. fertility is not inherently disrupted even by obesity, and b. it is at a point FAR before obesity that women start getting rejected by men because of their size.


Right, so I jogged two hours a day almost every day during the years I was obese, and...I stayed obese.
Do you think most American women just prefer to NOT look like what men idealize, or...?

Interesting you define 100-200 lbs as being "slightly overweight"...
Dunno about this- wouldn't their male partners be "settling", and constantly on the lookout for something "better", according to you?
What fun it would be to be the woman in THAT relationship.



The average American woman is today a size 14. Is a size 14 woman considerably larger, bigger, or close to the same as what's held up as the male ideal, would you say? Most American women are several sizes larger than Lindsay Lohan at her largest.

If most men refused to date most women, then most women would be single--which is not the case.



Do you have any reliable sources for this? It's a well known fact that a significant amount of excess fat stalls fertility. Ask any scientist.



You're still missing my point. I didn't say that 100 lbs wa overweight, my point was that women today has so much bargaining power in terms of sex that body shape becomes less important. Having said that, a man's instincts will still drive him toward the most fertile woman.

... And yes, far more men than women have to settle.




Most american women today are unhealthy. A lot of women slightly younger than me are roughly the size of Lindsay Lohan at her most attractive, but then they stop giving a damn by the time they hit their early 20's. The national average of a size 14, accounts for all age groups above 18.

An average American woman has a bodyfat percentage of 32, which is much more than what's ideal, seen from a healthy perspective.

Kurgan, you are grossly mistaken. most people do not approach dating as though they are negotiating at an auction market, so your statements about bargaining power is frankly absurd. also, men and women are on equal terms in every dating situation where there are equal numbers of each gender. to suggest otherwise is a mathematical impossibility

No, because you have older generations such as millions of baby boomers who are largely-married- that says nothing of the younger singles scene.



The sentiment isn't altogether an uncommon one on this very forum. There are people in the BBW thread calling those attracted to overweight people "psychological".

It's also a well-known fact that by definition "excess" fat is the amount above which health problems occur, so I need ask no scientists to evidence tautologies.


Women today have "so much" bargaining power when it comes to sex?! ROFL. Try dating as a woman who is abstinent and upfront about it, or who isn't but refuses __________ (oral, anal, fill in the blank). You'll quickly find yourself dropped like a hot pop tart.


If there were true, overweight women wouldn't be avoided by men in favor of being alone- that's a reproductive DEAD END.


Explain?




So, again, how do you think the average lines up with men's ideals and who they're willing to date?