Double standards in society?(offtopic discussion earlier thr

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Yeah, so awesome. Like a white rights movement, or a straight rights movement. You know, it's important for the people with most of the power to complain as much as possible that they don't have as much power as they'd like (all of it).
Wait? by "awesome" you mean redundant at best, outright hateful and delusional at worst right?

But yeah, ladies are totally the worst, you read it on reddit and everything.

yet again, edgewaters really has the right answers made palatable to a wide audience
yes, anyone being abused is a problem regardless of their gender, and yes, domestic violence takes a much larger toll on women than men

It's difficult to talk about these topics in the context of dating because everyone feels personally wronged by the dating game. Dating sucks.
But it sucks for EVERYBODY!

The example you gave of tangible risk for a man who is "unaware of boundaries" facing legal repercussions, did you mean like a dude who misreads signals and then 'accidentally' rapes/sexually assaults someone? Because in that case, I still think the woman who got raped/sexually assaulted got the crap end of the stick.

No, I mean there's a greater sensitivity to aggressive behaviour that crosses boundaries, because of the threat of predators. Which is completely reasonable. But here's the problem: it isn't a question of just having complete freedom to act within the boundaries. Well ok, actually it is, but that isn't the general perception or the social model for it. The social model for it, is to be at exactly a certain level of ... whatever you want to call it, boldness or aggressiveness or whatever. Not too much, not too little. For me it's too hard to figure out so I err on the side of caution, not taking the role of being the one to approach, and just add that one to the list of social norms I have opted out of or redesigned to suit myself.

I'll give you an example of why. This is years ago, I'm about 20 or so I think, I'm at a bar with some friends. Keep in mind this is just one example - I can think of a few others. Ok, so, I was a virgin at the time and this was either known or suspected by my friends. I'm standing at the bar, there's a girl in front of me. One of my friends reaches past me and pinches her butt then disappears. She turns and *smiles* at me. This is horrible - there's some other set of rules they're all playing by that I clearly don't understand at all. To me that's ... not right, not acceptable, it shouldn't work like that - she should've slapped me or something like that. If everyone's going to play by some other secret set of unspoken rules, screw it. I'll make my own rules, within rational boundaries I can readily comprehend.

ok, I see, thanks for taking the time to clarify that for me
my head went to a whole different place

If we have to refer to this all as work, the gender roles do different work from each other in the dating game. As edgewaters (I think) pointed out the female gender role does a lot more subtle work, and the male is expected to do transparent displays of affection much like ancient mating rituals.

Sorry, I was expecting at least one personal experience to form a concrete part of your reply, as the various situations where a girl, or woman has been publicly humiliated/rejected/beaten up because she tried to approach a guy in a public place - and I count schoolparks and grounds as public - just because she was a girl.

If this was going to expand into an debate on the abuse of ignoring men's health and emotional wellbeing, can someone please explain why Prostrate Cancer receives less than HALF funding, support & media awareness compared to Breast Cancer when Prostrate Cancer kills over THIRTY THOUSAND GUYS A YEAR? Or how Male Rape is stigma, along with Mental Health, Domestic Abuse and declining standards in education?

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If the worst thing you have to deal with is rejection, you couldn't handle being a woman. I've seen women get rejected and I've seen women get the s**t kicked out of them. I'm not interested in dueling anecdotes.
Because no men have gotten off their butts to organize and manage the kinds of massive *private* charities that fund breast cancer research.
Also breast cancer tends to target younger people, and of all genders (though XY at a lower rate)
false equivalency
ALL rape victims are stigmatized, you are doubted and shamed and if you want to go to trial the defense is going to do their best to paint you as a slu*ty lying slut, only a portion of raped are even prosecuted and only a portion of those yield convictions.
So yeah, it may be more embarrassing for a male rape victim, but men are way, way, less likely to be raped in the first place (the majority of rapes that are committed against men perpetrated by guess who? other men)
Mental health...yes, that is an issue for people, XX people too
Domestic abuse shelters, when women stop being the overwhelming majority of serious domestic abuse victims, we'll talk, till then, anyone is welcome to set one up.

If you're just here to spout MRA talking points, you aren't going to have a fun time.
This is L&D, not the bitter man rant place.

Thank you for proving my point.

I don't see why men or women's health and wellbeing should even be a part of this discussion. It's not the original topic, and thousands die of prostate and cervical cancer every year. Does either one really count as a more "important" cancer than the other? Cancer is cancer. And to make it even more moot MILLIONS die at the hands of other people every year worldwide. There.

Good point.
But I was never saying Prostate Cancer is more important. Cancer is Cancer.
I ask why does it receive less than half the funding and support compared to Breast Cancer, when this Cancer kills over 30,000 men a year?

Adverts & events like these are misleading:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPqA_wYlqR0

It's All Of Us vs. Cancer - but ONLY Women can enter and fundraise. Why? Why am I banned to enter because I'm male? WHY?

While that is certainly disappointing, this isn't the place to discuss it to support an argument about why we males should be doing all this "work" we are allegedly doing.

P.S. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 917AAwsaTz hope this quashes any myths about Race for Life being a female only event. In fact, having worked in an office that had many runners a couple of them were men who would run in novelty outfits or in drag, and I used to live with a track runner who would race every year for this (bar the women only event). I'll agree the idea of it being women only is perhaps pushed a bit too far and the advertising can be misleading, but the events are almost all open to everyone and anyone scoffing at the idea of men running for cancer is just ignorant or has insecurities about their gender role.

First of all, I have to apologise. the 30,000 male prostrate cancer deaths are American figures I used and not UK figures. It's 10,000 in the UK, which is 10,000 too many.

This debate is about how much effort it takes to attract a mate, the western society model is based on this five point plan:

Guy finds an initial attraction to Girl, based on any factor - emotional, physical etc.
Guy approaches Girl fueled by attraction
Guy initates rapport with Girl
Girl decides whether to continue rapport or to reject Guy
Girl either accepts and esculates rapport into a set activity with Guy or rejects Guy for next approach.

I feel, as do other males, this is fundamentally wrong. I feel that approaching and establishing a rapport should be equal responsibilty, which would allow and support girls approaching guys. As far as I can tell, the female point of view from this, is that girls and women have a lot more involvement in initating and approaching than is described above.

This can be a very tiring model to work with. The 'How to break the "Nice Guy" cycle' thread has a lot of user input which would also help break out of this common routine as well. The last 3 girls I dated I certainly didn't have to put myself on the line like this.

EDIT: Here's the link http://www.wrongplanet.net/posts199352-start0.html

Firstly, Race for Life is Female ONLY, males can VOLUNTEER to SUPPORT the FEMALE runners, not fundraise and race themselves. I have never seen, read or heard of the Race for Moore and youtube has nothing, I had to search for 'Bobby Moore Fund' for any related results.

Second, you're posting strategies to help the system, rather than replace the system itself. Which is the fundamental point.

So you're assuming with my most recent experiences I had to make all the moves and it was all her decision. That's cute!
And those points are relevant I believe. Because an increase in confidence, a decrease in dependency on the other party to act or validate you will change how this song and dance works.

P.S. some useful information from the RFL website. So you are correct in saying RFL is women only (at least in terms of participation). It is for all cancer, though, and anyone can donate and any cancer sufferer can be remembered. Shine might be of interest, on the other hand.

Source: http://raceforlife.cancerresearchuk.org ... index.html

P.S.S. Bobby Moore was a world cup winner for England. He was also knighted, and has had a fund for quite some time. I'm presuming you are from the UK, and know who Bobby Moore is?

What ill remind you is that the dogma of the LnD forum is people like you who pretend everything is all dudleydooright all over.


The both of you (and all the other women who continually post in this manner) want this sorts of inustices to end? Guess what blaming men is just going to make it stronger. Until women take a real step into equality by having a more active and not reactive role in society we will continue having this sort of thing happen. Its in the hands of women, simple as that. Im sure youll remind me all about how "ohh its harder for women, as proof look at how many female CEOs exist". Which again is due not to men being these monsters, but to women overall ot taking the active role.

Last edited by MXH on 27 May 2012, 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

So you're saying for a person who suffers from an disorder that limits social confidence that having social confidence is the key?
Like I said, the fundamental problem is the system. It's like I'm a Mac and you're advising me to purchase Service Packs for Windows.

I've never once seen any advert for Shine or even heard of it before, it's media awareness is none - I had youtube 'Shine Cancer' and even the first response was "Together, we can shine a light on breast cancer and turn the whole world pink! " Which about sums up my entire point on Prostrate Cancer.

Yes, I have heard of Bobby Moore - who hasn't seen THAT photo?