Seperation and rules?

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A positive spin on "upgrading men"... something I have little tolerance for.

"Upgrading men?" That seems simplistic.

I don't know if this applies to the OP; I don't know what the reasons for he and his partner's separation are. Sometimes it can be can be that things are not working in a relationship and you need to get away from it. I don't think it's always the case of looking for a better bet.

But if people decide to move on, this should be respected. Who knows, they may come back one day.

I think I know what you mean though; I've had a couple of people I cared about decide they "could do better." It hurts, but you can't control another person's behavior.

If this is a burning concern for you it might be a good idea to have a calm, open discussion about this with her.
Since you're separated I don't think it's wrong for her to look into dating (even if there is financial support, money doesn't equal exclusive vagina rights), but since it's clear that it would upset you in a major way I think it's a good idea to give her a heads up that it would make you mad.

Time to move on otherwise it seems like she could be keeping you on the back burner until she finds someone better or you'll always be second best to her and that's not a position I wish for any man.

Good luck, bro and to Dogs, it's difficult to communicate a calm conversation with someone who only communicate in anger and criticism. However I think if he can make her remember why she fell for him and get her in a good positive mood, that would be best if he is going to question or reprimand her.

2 things:

1. There seems little evidence so far that she's using him as a stepping stone in that way......maybe the evidence is whart we shoudl be focussing on.

2. If "exclusive vagina rights" (I prefer the term fidelity) are denied, financial support is likely to get denied back. From a man's point of view in a situation like this, an unfaithful wife has no moral right to financial support from the injured party. Legally (in the UK), if she's given up paid work to keep house, and/or there is a history of regular support from husband to wife, she might be entitled to something, but as far as I can see, these payments have been specific one-offs to help her move out. Nonetheless, I'd advise making them unofficially, in cash. Child support would have to continue as long as there was no attempt to replace the natural father's role with a new sexual partner. But that doesn't seem likely here. I wouldn't recommend discussing it with her. It would only come over as a threat - "if you're unfaithful I'll stop helping you." But I think that's usually the name of the game.

The "upgrade" issue as it's been discussed here seems to be mostly projection. OP, doesn't even know if she's dating at all, let alone if she's looking for a "higher status" guy.

I guess the question at hand is, in the process of divorce, when is the interpersonal relationship dissolved? Do you have to wait for the last i to be dotted and t to be crossed and through what could be a fairly time consuming legal process before you can look to be happy again?

Is op US based?
If so, alimony is a possibility if she's incurred opportunity cost over years of homemaking. And I believe if awarded, it stops when the spouse receiving alimony gets remarried (is this wrong? I'm not sure). Child support is about the child, so it's not affected by the custodial parent's romantic life.

I would say unofficial cash payments are not a good idea because then you have no proof you gave her any money,and if it's court mandated that you do, and she sues you over it, you could end up double paying.

I don't think it would be a particularly fun or productive conversation but it seems like there is a grey area that needs to be navigated here, and if he's going to get ragey if she sees the situation and what behavior would be appropriate differently, he needs to air that out.

Right now it seems like he's looking for things to get angry with her for in the future and checking to see if she does what he thinks she might at some point, if that will be a justification for a show of anger.

Thanks for advice, saw our counsellor by myself, she says not mention to wife about my thoughts on Internet dating. She would be very surprised if she was doing it, and if she was and didn't tell you , I would have every right to feel very angry and in her mind justifiably so.

For me, it's nothing much to do with legal paperwork, and everything to do with whether or not there's anything duplicitous going on. The interpersonal relationship is normally dissolved when one partner says it's dissolved.

As far as I know, nobody has expressed an intention to divorce. The lady seems to be taking her time deciding whether or not she wants to carry on with the marriage.

It might still reflect badly on a person's integrity if they kept their ex hanging on while quietly pursuing a new relationship. In the UK, I think you can still divorce for adultery, and both the adulterer and the co-respondent are clearly indicated on the divorce certificate. I don't know if it would make any difference to financial judgements or child access rights. It would make it harder to hide a history of infidelity from (e.g.) a future potential spouse, which is probably in the public interest. I wanted to make adultery the reason for my divorce from my 2nd wife, but I had our son's welfare to think about, so I decided not to provoke unnecessary resentment, and accepted a petition on the grounds of living separately, although my wife had lied on the form about how long we'd been apart. Sometimes one has to hold one's nose.


Best check with a solicitor or somebody who knows the local divorce law well. I'd stick to sporadic, one-off lump sums though. When I was paying out regularly for my wife to look after her own kids, apparently if we'd divorced right then, she might have been able to force me to carry on paying out, even though they weren't even my kids.


I think he just wants to know where he stands.

exactly.. where do I stand?
I spoke to my/our counsellor yesterday and this is how we both see it... i wanted to be sure that we were both on the same page

there is no relationship at present.. we are seperated
I want the marriage to continue
My wife is unsure at this point in time but if she does decide it is over she will tell me straight away and not keep me hanging
things such as internet dating would be a betrayal and I would have every right to be angry.

The above cannot continue indefinately but could be like this for the next 4-6 months, or only the next week..no timelines

( I should add that my counsellor has seen many couples in the same situation as us and she honestly says it could go either way

I have to agree with her on this one, probably one of the reasons, as with most separations and divorces. is that lack of communication. If you cant talk to her about what the rules are, how can you have any hope of fixing the problems. Not the most sensitive way of putting it, sorry.

Exactly, and I`ve had to deal with this exact problem. If one person REFUSES to really communicate, there`s no hope of solving anything and there`s nothing left to do but accept the icky situation and try to move on.

Seems to me your counsellor is correct.

I was in a similar kind of "dog house" position once...........hanging on the edge of a relationship where I was perceived to have done something very wrong, patiently answering questions and trying to put things right. The circumstances were a little different.........my "crime" was that I'd previously ended the relationship and later started another one which fell apart, then the first partner came back into my life.......I told her what had happened, she still showed interest in re-establishing a connection with me, and got me to agree to that, but she soon slipped into recriminations and gulit-tripping. I decided to try being very patient, because although I don't feel I'd done much wrong, I could see how in "animal instinct" terms it could be very hard for her to come to terms with my having been with another woman.........just because jealousy is unjustified doesn't mean to say it can be ignored. As well as the guilt-tripping (telling me I'd deliberately left her just to legitimise an affair,), she would periodically declare that she no longer wanted a relationship with me (which made it hard to explain why she kept contacting me and flirting with me). My patience eventually ran out after a few weeks, and the hoped-for relationship collapsed with it. The key difference from your story is that I felt myself to be innocent. It would have been interesting to see how much longer my patience would have lasted if I'd felt I'd done wrong.

I have had the first real talk with many of my family about the position I am in, surprise surprise they just don't get it.. I feel they are where I was 2 months ago... They expect my wife and I to work it out quickly... They should know it takes ages. They don't see the emotional damage i did.. They do realise that it was both our faults, but I still think tmy wife hasn't accepted that she has to change.

That would be a good one to talk to the counsellor about. She can't reasonably expect to be above criticism forever.

that is on the agenda... for the next session.. my counsellortells me that she has to for the marriage to survive.. i understand.. but it is up to her.. she is in her own house now so it is a case of whether she will miss me or move on...

Good luck with that..