A great parable about the whole "Nice Guy" thing..

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Doesn't have to be about sex. Hell, just wanting some form of intimacy with the girl and feeling entitled to it puts you in the same category as those guys you call "douchebags" if you think being boringly nice is the way to attract girls into a relationship.

And, contrary to popular belief around here, a lot of guys who feel entitled to having sex and are jerks do get what they want and aren't the ones who are actually being demonized as Nice Guys even though they may act sweet with the girls they want to have sex with.

Wanting sex is no more bad than wanting emotional intimacy from a relationship anyway. The perceived "evilness" is in how you go about it apparently.

EDIT: I personally don't believe Nice Guys are necessarily malicious. Just misguided. And many otherwise decent guys are, or have been, in the Nice Guy phase at some point in time.

Nice guys aren't necessarily bad, just misguided. I posted this article not to bash any of them. As a former nice guy, I want to help.

True, true. And we wonder why this world's going down the shitter.

Long live the jerks.

Why do you think aspie-guys are prone to this "nice-guy"-syndrome?


Personally I think it is due to "too much empathy". Aspies often care (or started out by caring) more about their surroundings compared to non-aspies. This includes being (sometimes overly) kind towards others.

Mother nature rewards being a bad guy, because bad guys think they are worth more than others. This is a great survival-tactic because they are going to fight more for their "rights". As a result of the greater possibility of survival their genes should be spread widely, according to nature, since nature cares only for existence/survival.

There is nothing inherently "good" nor "bad" in nature. Nature just wants survival. A hugely annoying fact.

Part of calling out "nice guy" syndrome is eliminating the short sighted and overly simplified myth that "all girls want bad boys" and that's the reason these poor "nice guys" suffer.

Using this parable as an example........

While it's true that some girls tend to be attracted to stick-up-thier-ass jerks those girls tend to be clingy and co-dependent.

What most girls (the right girls) are truly attracted to are guys who are confident enough to stand up for themselves while at the same time somewhat accomidating to them........an equal partner with a spine.

So essentially another version of people lacking in confidence, self esteem and assertiveness....will always become 'resentful' and cruel towards others especially the oppostie gender due to being treated like crap and not being able to stand up to it too well....so as usual the point still appears to be: watch out for those confident people....they are just looking for someone to cling to and use, but secretly resent everyone because they of how they've been treated.

I feel sorry for the woman in the story, and it disgusts me that the article presents indirectly sending 'I don't want you around' messeges is a good tactic for ending a relationship. No that is called emotional abuse, trying to do things to hurt the other person in the relationship is actually abuse and should not be encouraged. If they guy decided he wasn't getting on well with the woman he should have been honest to her not mean and deceitful.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 19 Feb 2013, 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And there it is the short and sweet summary of one of the biggest PROBLEMS in this society, asinine behavior is respected.....considering other people, being a generally nice person towards others(not as a manipulation tactic, but because you actually care for their well-being is seen as weak and spineless.

Sweetleaf, I'm sure you are a very caring girl, just don't give yourself to those that mistake kindness for weakness. There are so manipulative people there that will take advantage of and exploit people for being less assertive and well you need to cut those manipulative out of your life until they are ready to treat you on an equal footing and not as a minority.

You just described a person with a spine. Being genuenly kind towards someone and not expecting anything else in return is not "nice guy" behavior. That kind of person wouldn't feel the need to call themselves a nice guy.

"Nice guys" are spineless because they don't actually care or are expecting something (ie, sex, intimacy) in return and become bitter when they don't get that.

I was speaking more generally....and I do my best not to but its kind of hard when the larger society sees those traits that way. I mean yeah I've been walked all over a lot, not because I am just letting people but because they are able to over-power me with their meanness when I do my best to be kind to others or they can take advantage by using me or manipulating me...I mean sure I am a bit better at recognizing that now at least i hope so anyways since I've experienced it. But I hate how society seems to see that sort of thing as the person being walked all overs fault.......like its their fault for being a nice person so they should shove a stick up their ass and become an a**hole(tried that to, didn't work).

I do however cut such people out of my life when I figure out they are such people, but in the past that's usually been after the damage has already been done. Yet the way society seems to see it is I should have been more of an a**hole, people shouldn't avoid walking all over someone who they percieve as 'weaker'. Instead those being walked all over should just become a**holes and walk all over other people....problem solved. Its a mentality I just don't get.

I understand that perfectly, which is why I don't understand why these 'nice guy' articles don't leave it at that and always try to say things like seeming nice, having confidence issues or being insecure or unable to cope with life as well as others are signs of a 'nice guy' or even a nice but not actually nice female. Though I still think it would be less confusing if nice guys where viewed as nice guys and manipulative guys where viewed as manipulative guys. Why should the term nice be given a negative connotation, because some A**hole fancied them-self a nice guy when they where quite the opposite.

I think I prefer the way the Cracked article in my sig puts it. Acting nice to someone is at best a bland non-achievement, and at worst maliciously deceitful.

I think your article leans a bit too heavily on the stick metaphor, and kind of loses its way as a result.

SweetLeaf, I think a critical point is that it's sometimes important to be not nice to someone you care about. I'm the last person to have a clue about this stuff, but my guess is that women are biologically tuned to appreciate someone who won't let them hurt themselves or others out of niceness. I can't explain it very well beyond that.

Imagine how your opinion of me would differ if what I said in this post was "you're really sweet, hugs!"

(As it happens, I should probably do the hugs thing more often, so I'm probably the stick-in-the-ass person. But whatever I am, I'm okay with.)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VXXXX9iVPI[/youtube]Nice guys do not finish last! Warning she cusses a bit in the vid!

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1994-07-24/

There's a strong false dichotomy happening in this thread that's completely misguided. You're either an a-hole or a "nice" guy? Is that how it is? Nope.

As I tried to point out in my post...would anyone consider Ghandi or Jesus a-holes? No. Would they be considered 'nice' guys? No. A nice guy tries to appease all parties, and neither Ghandi nor Jesus did that...and yet these two figures of history are seen by and large as good people.

The 'nice guy' we're talking about here is the person who sacrifices their own desires and wants, their own feelings at the expense of others. That is plain bad for the individual...any psychologist would tell you that not fighting for your own needs is bad for your mental health.

You can be a good person and be angry as hell. How else do good things come about? Did women in the US win the right to vote by being 'nice'? No. They were good people who were mad and weren't going to be nice any longer because being nice meant being walked all over. Know the difference between being good and being nice.

Of course there is a time and place for being nice, but it shouldn't supersede your own needs.