Here we go again . . .

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I sort of remember you now. You posted here a while ago about this same guy.

Well, all I can say is, you're asking for it. If you're such a tough person that you can handle it on your own, you don't need anyone's help here.

I agree. But just as much, I think it is wise to "watch the hands, not the mouth." Emotions are messy and can cloud one's judgment. Words are imprecise and can be easily manipulated or misinterpreted. So I take people at their word, but I watch their actions and behavior to be sure they are consistent.

Throughout years of experience with this guy, one thing is consistent: his words and actions very, very often do not match. Even his words, from one point in time to the next, are exactly contradictory. He claims he doesn't want a relationship with me . . . while enjoying having a relationship with me. He claims he doesn't want emotional sex, yet he has said that physical intimacy is "about the person" and is revolted by "degenerates" who hit him up for meaningless sex. I think when he is melting down, he says harsh things to me not because he means them, but to hurt me. Maybe because at one time I hurt him, or he feels like a loser for being too scared to perform sexually. Whatever the reason, it feels good to lash out. Then later he feels sheepish and guilty and apologizes.

Feels very familiar. My ex-husband was mildly abusive and followed a similar cycle. His inability to control his emotions was a major reason I divorced him. He could have improved if he'd stuck with counseling and applied himself. I think this guy could too, but first he'd have to admit that he's doing something wrong, which he needs help to change. I think he would flatly reject that idea at this stage.

I guess I'm pretty tough, but I have long doubted how much more of this I can take. It helps that I am learning how to identify meltdowns and avoid triggers, and just tune out everything he says in that state. Still. It would be much easier if I was getting some of what I want out of the relationship. But I'm really not, and have no idea if I ever will. I have been suppressing my own needs for a very long time - so long it has become a permanent state. But it was never intended to be more than temporary, while he sorted himself out.

And if actual sex is never gonna happen, well, there's not much point. I feel guilty about that, but it's the only way he can express lovey emotions. Based on our Skype sessions, I think he feels them and he wants to, but he's really scared. I cut him so much slack because the fear goes deeper than I can appreciate, and he has come a long way. Not measured against other people, but measured against himself. I'm sure there's a lot more to it than what he's told me.

I am obsessed with someone who is unavailable too. She refuses to have any committed relationships, only casual sex, since the love of her life hurt her. She also has trust issues because of growing up in a dysfunctional family. She chased me. Then as soon as I made myself available, she started pushing me away. The script sounds almost identical to the pattern with your relationship. I tried to be considerate. I tried to figure out what was in her head. I tried to get her to see the error of her ways. I got mad. I apologized for getting mad because I know that her past makes her scared of having feelings for anyone. She said she was busy. I know that was a BS excuse. I refused to buy it. You know though, to her it is reality. It is not a BS excuse. Basically, the key idea for me to hold onto is the fact that I cannot control her. It doesn't matter why she doesn't want to be with me. It doesn't matter that she sent out mixed messages. What matters is that she is unavailable, and there is something wrong with me if I keep beating my head against the wall chasing unavailable women. BTW, every woman I feel a strong attraction too is unavailable for one reason or another. I am attracted to them because they are unavailable.

Right now I am making a daily commitment not to contact her. I think she will not contact me either because she is still in running-away mode, but if she does, there will be no intimate conversation. Her window of opportunity with me is closed. I need to free up energy to figure out what I want in a relationship and pursue that. I do not want another relationship where it is this constant push/pull with no hope of me getting my needs met. I would like to make better choices about who I give my heart to.

My suggestion is that you follow in my footsteps and put the focus back on yourself instead of obsessing about him. His behavior is not your fault. You can't control him. You can't trust him. Even though it hurts to let go of the dream of being with him, that sounds like the most rational thing to do in my opinion.

You have a right to say no. It's definitely an option. I'd recommend it.

Wise words. Thing is, we trade places chasing each other. Sometimes he's the one who begs, sometimes it's me. He thinks we are both "lions that need to be tamed." I agree. A friend of mine thinks it's like watching two porcupines trying have sex.

I just read your thread. Now I understand your schadenfreude at my situation. I'm sorry that chick hurt you.

But your situation is another reason I hang in there with this guy, and still think we'd be better off together than apart. To protect the public. The whole world would be better off. We have been in and out of each others' lives for almost 18 years. We have both hurt people, because of our feelings for each other. We've never stopped missing each other, but always thought the other was unattainable. Our marriages had their own independent problems, but they probably wouldn't have ended if we hadn't been on each others' minds. If we were to go off and marry others again, it is hard for me to see how that wouldn't repeat. These come-and-go cycles keep repeating because we just can't help ourselves. a**holes in love, I guess. Better we stick together and keep each other out of circulation, than mess up even more people's lives.

you two sound like two people with sh***y karma who are just not seeing a way to fix it this time around either.

We cannot control anything other than ourselves..

Yep!

I've been reading your posts about this man and your "relationship" for some time now, and I reckon it's pretty much all in your head. He really doesn't want anything to do with you, other than no-strings sexual gratification, which you tempt him with, and he succumbs against his better judgement, then you start the same old, same old, and he tries to extricate himself.

Oh, and Shau's own personal life has nothing to do with his comment above. Look back to your last thread on this.

Edited to add: Saved you the trouble. This was posted on 30th August 2013. It was really easy to find as this seems to be the only thing you post about here.

I'm sorry, OP, but it won't change. You will keep going through a never-ending cycle of this crap when you could have someone who loves you and won't flake out every other month. I say to get over him already--you know in your heart and head that this isn't going anywhere. I can guarantee you will be back here again in a couple months, tell us the same story, and then chase him again. You're saying he's just hurt and making excuses for him. He refuses to change. Why are you trying to pressure him to love you? Sure, he may love the sex, but he's telling you he doesn't want commitment. Just open your eyes already.

That's the thing. I do not KNOW that. That's what I thought when I ended it in 1997. I went to see him in 1999, and I was wrong. He wanted me to stay, I wanted to too, and I could have. But when I excitedly called to tell him, he misunderstood, melted down, and hung up on me. Made no sense and scared the hell out of me, so I left the country and forgot about him.

In 2008, he reacted with shock and regret when he learned he could have kept me. Said it would've been a no-brainer to leave his spouse on the spot, if not for the two kids. He knows he scrambles women's brains and was afraid of doing it to me. His divorce was final two years ago, and he's been yanking me around like this ever since. I don't believe it is intentional. I've seen him in other emotionally charged situations, and the poor bastard can't fight his way out of a paper bag.

What I DO know is that he sends out so many garbled, mixed messages, that no one has any idea what he wants or what he's going to do. He is totally unpredictable and I have no frigging idea if things will go anywhere or not.

What I DO know is that he keeps promising sex, but delivering pain, and I am damn tired of the bait-and-switch. I don't hide my feelings - although he's done a good job beating them out of me - but I do nothing to pressure him to love me. I've had to lower my expectations so far down into the sewer, I'd be thrilled just to get laid. If I could get turned on anymore, which I'm not sure about.

Is he telling me he doesn't want commitment? He's faked me out so many times, I have no idea. He's told me he wants a relationship. When he's in panic mode, he insists not with me, and beats me up with all kinds of other crap. Yet, we've been having a relationship for a few months now - more of a relationship than it ever was back then. He talks big and he talks smack, but I've learned to ascribe little meaning to any of it.

So, open my eyes to what? He's a f*ck-up. I get that. His random sticks and carrots have scrambled my brains. I know that 95% of the time, he is positive and encouraging and sweet. He is negative and abusive and pushes me away only when he's panicking, and he only panics a day or two before we are supposed to meet for sex. I do not understand why that happens, and I don't believe he does either. He seems to believe he is not in control of it, and perhaps is embarrassed by it.

Beyond that, I don't KNOW a damned thing.

Ok, katie, we get it. You're something special, you and your guy.

I know that's how it appears to those with conventional social programming. Every woman he dates reaches this conclusion and dumps him. Including me, at one time. Yet, he complains bitterly about how disgusting women are because they just want sex, or how he feels like a monster because women all run away screaming. By now I've been observing him for a very long time, and I can reach no conclusions other than, he's an emotional cripple, and has no idea how people think, or how to have a relationship. I'd guess he's far more frustrated with himself, than with me.

Keep in mind, the WP community is a self-selected group of Aspies who are diagnosed, self-diagnosed, or otherwise open to the idea that they are wired differently. Everyone here is high-functioning, socially inclined, interested in learning, and capable of introspection. My guy is not diagnosed, and I have tried to imagine him interacting here . . . ha. First off, he would angrily reject any suggestion that he isn't "normal." Beyond that, most discussions would not make sense, would not seem relevant, and/or would make him feel defective. He is very emotional, in deep denial, has hostile prejudices, and bristles at any suggestion that maybe he should reconsider how he views things. He's pretty much impossible.

I know it's tiresome. Thanks for reading.

Yeah. Those with, what was it again? Ah yes, "conventional social programming" aka self-respect, self-worth and a clear-eyed view of reality.

For what it's worth - I'm a 45 year old woman, with varied life experiences behind me, including two marriage and two divorces and am currently in a mutually-convenient, agreeable, not "do-your-head-in" relationship with the man I went out with between the ages of 17 and 21.

I think you are kidding yourself about this man, and I really don't know why you keep posting about it here - unless you want an audience or are treating WP as some kind of interactive "dear diary".

I'm just saying, it's much more than just no-strings sexual gratification to him. In 1997, he had me convinced that's all I was to him, which is why I broke it off. Turned out I was wrong about that, and that is certainly not what's going on now.

He hasn't always been so erratic. It's only been since his divorce - a vicious battle that lasted 3 years - that emotions confuse him and scare him and make him panic. I'm not sure why. Our Skype calls are awesome, but he is always in a hotel far away. To meet up with me in person, obviously he has to be in town. Could be there is something about being home that makes him freak out. His ex is a real piece of work. I think he is more traumatized by her than he'll admit. Just before she threw him out of his own house, she snatched his phone and screamed at and threatened every female in his contact list, including me. I'm scared of her. I suspect he tries to be out of town as much as possible, to avoid her. Could be all her screaming and threatening kind of mentally castrated him.

When you're on Skype, performing for him, he can switch you off if you start hassling him. Meeting with you in person means that if you start, he has to walk out on you, which takes more time, and is less convenient.

Wow. Um, no. Next!


Sure. Interactive diary, I'd go with that. Every now and then, a guy who was diagnosed only much later in life sees himself in what I describe, and can explain the problems with processing emotions and having relationships. That has been extremely helpful. Or I get good advice about how to manage my own emotions. The sarcasm and criticism (constructive or not) can be helpful too, particularly with getting my anger under control. I also like to browse the other threads, and see how hyper-judgmental people are, and how little they're willing or able to put up with, even here. My guy has some very unrealistic expectations about how much luck he'd have dating other women!

Last edited by waitykatie on 03 Dec 2013, 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.