abstaining from premarital sex, thoughts?

Post Reply New Topic

Well, personally, I'm not nuts about romantic dinners and presents. I categorically recommend dating "Dutch treat." That is to say, you pay for yours and I pay for mine. Cuts down on users-- also cuts down on "You owe me." When I was dating, I did not let people pay for my meals (something that was, frequently, disconcerting-- but my Daddy taught me to watch out for my own ass). Gifts are nice I guess-- on birthdays and at Christmas (if you do that). I suck at picking out presents and consider not getting them to be a worthwhile price to pay in exchange for not having to pick them out. Special trips should be something you both enjoy for their own sake-- if you're doing it to get something (other than a chance to Get Away From It All and enjoy the waves or the view of the Smokies or whatever), I'd say you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

I never understood flowers. They're pretty for a few days-- and then they're dead. WTF????

If you have to treat somebody up to keep 'em, maybe they should be someone else's problem (or, better yet, find themselves alone until they grow up a little bit). My cousin (in her late teens and early 20s) used to put out only after someone took her to Taco Bell-- we referred to her, not exactly with affection, as Nacho Puta. I'm happy for her that she grew out of it, and now has a husband, mutual respect, and two great boys (who we hope she will set a better example for).

It's a practical consideration. And it's mostly the guys' judgment that I'm worried about-- women are definitely influenced by sex, but it seems that men are more so.

That's the advice that I give my daughters; it is also the advice I give my son (and quite a bit more strenuously, since men are the ones more likely to get taken advantage of in a relationship and/or in a divorce). My girls hear, "Your best bet is to keep your pants up, at least until you've set a wedding date. If you can't do that, please make sure to use a condom. There are diseases out there that can kill you, and raising a kid when you're 19 is HARD." My son hears, "Keep your wing-wang in your pants, sweetheart. Girls are crazy. Sex outside of marriage is DANGEROUS."

The lecture will get more complex when he's not SIX.

I'd be inclined to agree with something along these lines. I take sex seriously myself and understand the points BuyerBeware is making about hormones clouding judgement, but that can go both ways. I grew up in a very conservative, religious area and had a number of friends who went straight from high school into marriage at the age of 18 or 19. I wound up engaged right after turning 20 myself. Why the mad rush? Guys with raging hormones pressuring us into marriage when we barely knew who we were yet, just because it had been drilled into them that marriage was the gateway to sex.



It's not an expectation with all women. Maybe you are dating the wrong ones.

This. ^^^

Unless you're Asexual or only think sex should be used for procreation, sexual chemistry is a very important aspect of any romantic relationship. Your life though. I'm sure it works for some people.

I didn't say I'd made a iron cast Iron decision. Just thinking about it to protect myself from being used again. Sex is nice, but I can take it or leave it. And a man shouldn't buy me things and take me out because he expects sex, that is the classic definition of used!

I am willing to pick up the bill from time to time and buy him presents on special occasions. It would not be to gain anything but to protect myself. All I want is companionship and respect. Flowers are nice, I've never gotten any but I wouldn't mind if a guy bought me flowers because he cared. But I would not want flowers with strings attached. Gifts should be given because you care, not to get something in return.

Your life. At first I thought you were male, but (no offense) since you are a female, it does not have as many downsides as if you were male.

Well then I wouldn't say the problem is sex, per se, but probably (and don't take this the wrong way) you're a bit too naive. It seems you find it too easy to trust people for how they come across rather than for how they act. In my experience, one doesn't get into multiple consecutive bad relationships by total misfortune- people can get stuck in self-esteem cycles, for example, where they feel worthless after coming out of a degrading or draining relationship, so that the next compatible person they find seems like a gift from the heavens, only then a few months down the line does everything go to pot again, and it all repeats itself. Not saying this is necessarily the case here, but its a common reason as to why some people have harrowing relationship experiences when other people don't- there are other explanations too.

What I'd be interested in is, how long did you actually know these guys before you got together with them? Because that's something I believe is a major cause for failed relationships, that the pressures on to go ahead and make something of it when nobody really knows what they're dealing with on the other side. For the record, I would suggest if you do end up in a relationship again, don't necessarily abstain from sex until marriage, but definitely give the guy a good few months to prove themselves (like, 2 or 3 should be enough). Intimacy is still very important, as others have said, but its also important (especially for you) that you have someone who respects you as a human, not property. 2 or 3 months is a nice barrier to set up to keep exploitive a**holes away- in that amount of time they might as well just hunt other prey to get what they want.

@BuyerBeware- while I can appreciate why you may think the things you do, I am not comfortable with your reduction of the male psyche to just a yearning for intercourse. Not meaning to overstep any bounds, but it worries me that you even seem concerned for your husbands decision making abilities- he's your husband. Odds are, he loves you for reasons outside of your vagina, and he would have done so anyway (Eye contact is the big player in romantic attraction). Give him more credit. Give us more credit.

Is it just me who sees this as more than a tiny bit f****d up?

I wonder if she does demonstrations with Lego bricks.

Its absolutely your choice.

If you make your choice wholly because of your life experiences (rather than what others expect of you, obvious ones being patriarchal societal values and religion) then what can anyone say.

If that kid doesn't end up growing up with a Portnoy-esque sense of sexual shame and neurosis towards the opposite sex it'd be a miracle.

This is so depressingly true.

The guy is supposed to do things for his gf cause he enjoys making her happy, not because he wants sex. If the girl was just screwing the guy because she knew it would make him happy so she would get the "payoff" of expensive dates and gifts you'd call her a whore and you know it. So, you taking her out and buying her gifts and stuff so you get your "payoff" makes you what?

Also, not every girl expects all that crap you listed from her bf. I don't know what kind of girls you've dated (or assumed dating was like) but I don't know anybody that would expect all that. You sound like you think of dating as buying sex on the installment plan. Once it starts getting serious, or at least after the first month or two, and she doesn't want to have sex then that's when you discuss it with her. and ask her if premarital sex is something she is against. Then if it's a dealbreaker for you, you tell her. She may have been in bad relationships before and wants to wait, she may be someone who believes that a guy won't respect you if you give it up too easily, she may want to wait until she has deeper feelings for you, or she may just be wanting to have sex with somebody who doesn't feel that she owes it to him for f*****g buying her s**t.

You are aware that while women are most certainly allowed to have sex with whoever we please that wants to have it with us and is over 18, we are also not in any way obligated to have sex with a guy just because he bought us crap or spent money on us. And you can bet your bottom dollar that if you are doing all that with some sort of idea that you are going to deserve to get laid because of it, she's gonna pick up on that vibe and you are gonna be s**t out of luck.

You talked about the "full package" at the beginning of your post as the dates and the gifts and the trips and such, but that's NOT the full package to any girl I know. The full package is a guy we like who likes us, who treats us with respect and loves us, who we enjoy being with whether he spends a dime on us or not, and who we are physically attracted to and who is physically attracted to us. I went out with a guy for a couple weeks when I was about 20 who is in the group I hung around with and I liked him as a friend and enjoyed his company. I wasn't physically attracted to him, but he was cute in the face and I liked hanging around with him and talking to him so when he asked me out I went. We went out quite a few times and he would take me to expensive places, he would try and give me expensive stuff, he wanted to go on this weekend that this other, established couple we knew were going on, etc. He was trying to do all that crap you mentioned in the first part of your post, but after the first couple expensive dinners I'd suggest not going out to someplace fancy, lets just grab some pizza then go hang with our friends, or something like that. I was uncomfortable with the flowers he went to my work, with the presents he tried to give me and all and I told him I couldn't take them. I had taken the first one because it was a birthday present and I didn't think it was real but later on I found out it was and he wouldn't take it back, (that was after we had broke up - I tried to give it back when I found out it was a real diamond - dude had money out the ass) I said instead of a weekend trip lets go to Leslies parents lake cabin and hang with the rest of the kids who were going to spend the weekend there, etc. I don't know if he was going for sex or if he just really REALLY liked me. But I did not really, really like him, but if I had wanted to I could have strung him along for a long time putting off sex and raking in the s**t and being treated like a queen, but I didn't. He had dated several of the girls in our group, but only one long term and they had been in love but she moved out of state and that was that. None of us strung him along for the s**t just to say no to the sex. So, lets see...... the guy was 1. rich as all getouts, 2. in college and had a guaranteed great job with his dads company making tons more money, 3. THE NICE CAR that all the guys here have to mention when discussing why they don't get dates (although mine was nicer if you like how it runs rather than how much it costs) 4. manners and great social skills, 5. sharing common interests and enjoying talking and hanging out together, 6. cute but not my type of cute, 7. treated me like I was the queen of the world, 8. not in the least bit a jerk or rude to anyone, even though he was pretty far up in the "social hierarchy" and an "alpha male" 9. intelligent without being arrogant about it and enjoyed subtle or cerebral humor, 10. I could have stuck with him and married him and be living in the big house on the hill with a maid right now if I wanted. But, the total package as you call it just wasn't the actual total package. There wasn't any physical attraction or romantic feelings. The other girls he dated that I knew had felt that same way about him and stopped dating him too, but remained friends. Most returned the gifts as well, except for something like Christmas or birthday presents or something like that. Oh, and he never pushed for sex. I didn't go out with him long enough for that, but he didn't with any of the other girls either. Hell, he even took Jennifer to Florida for a weekend and they shared a bed but cuddled, no sex, and they dated for close to six months, this was near the end of that. She really liked him but not romantically but because she genuinely LIKED him so much she really WANTED to like him romantically and tried for those months but it just didn't work. He remained friends with all of us, to this day. He's married now, with kids, to the sister of a guy I used to date (Mindsigh knows the guy I used to date and probably his sister and this guy I'm talking about here) So, how come Mr Total Package there didn't have women sticking with him forever? If that's all we want?

BTW, the one really hot guy I dated when I was about 19 or so, who had the crappy personality that I finally just couldn't stand and broke up with him - know what the absolute deal breaker was that made me just not even be able to put up with his nonexistent personality? He had a little, tiny, dick and didn't know how to use it. Yep, he sucked really bad in the sack. Treated me great, took me places, took me on actually some of the most fun dates I've ever been on because they were unusual, but his personality was nonexistent, he was way OCD about everything being spotless in his house and my house, (he dried the sink at night before he went to bed) he wasn't a jerk either and was very sweet to me and all, but the final straw was that he was horrible in bed. As hot as he was, as much as I was able to deal with to be with him, I couldn't deal with that. So how does that fit in with your theory there?

To the OP, since my last post was in response to someone else - if you don't want to have sex, then don't have sex. It's not the choice I'd make for myself but everybody is different. My youngest daughter is 17 and has said many times she's not having sex till she gets married. She's an atheist so it's not about religious rules. She just doesn't want to have sex until she's married. I told her I'd support her whatever her decision is.

I would caution you about one thing though, and it's not about sexual compatibility or anything. I'd like to tell you not to decide to be celibate because of fear of being hurt. If you want to be celibate, do it because you want to wait, not because you are afraid of not waiting. If celibacy isn't something you want rather than something you think your emotional health requires then if you wait, get married, and then if it doesn't work out, you will be second guessing yourself about how your (or his) feelings may have changed earlier had you had sex before you got married. If you are going to abstain, then abstain positively not negatively - ie; "I want to save this act for someone special" instead of "I don't know yet if he's special enough" or "I don't trust myself to trust him".

At Threadstarter: Sex is a thing, that you should do the way, you feel comfortable with is. And if you feel more comfortable with having no sex until marriage, then thats the way you should do it.

You dont gift people, for your own benefit. Gifting is about benefitting the one that is gifted. What you get in return is that person being happy, and thats your gift in return.

What you are talking about is not about a gift, but about trade agreements. "So I give you that, and in exchange you give me that." That is not about gift. Or do you think you give your supermarket a gift, when you exchange money against groceries? ^^

Due to some riscs at my pregnancy, my husband can at the moment as well not give me the sex I want. Still I care for him and enjoy spending time with him in a good way, and care for him being happy. Not because of me being expected to do so, anyway if he can give me actually sex in return, but simply because of me loving him. Sorry, but what is that for a weird reasoning? "No, honey. Because you cant actually give me the sex I want, it suddenly is not relevant for me anymore, that you are happy? So no christmas cookies for you this year`?" O_o I dont bake that christmas cookies for him, because of him paying me with his sex in return, thats something we do naturally because of us being partners, but because they make him happy and let him see, that I care for him and him being happy.

And I dont give much about that "sexual compatibility", actually I had no probs with "free love" before I was in a fixed relationships, and sex is sex and it matters that both are happy and satisfied. Sex is not simply about 15 minutes long "in-out-in-out-in-out..." while you surpress yawning, if someone claimes that their partner could not satisfy them, when doing that, I´d say they should stop trying to play "porn actors" and instead spend some time on actually having sex. ^^

Last edited by Schneekugel on 13 Dec 2013, 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

The point of a relationship is to spend time with someone you love and with whom you want to spend time. If you only view women as the species you have to appease to get to have sex with, then I don't even know what to say to you. I just feel very sad for you. As others have said, giving gifts should be so you can make someone you love feel happy. Do you actually like these women that you are dating? Plus, most women enjoy sex. What a shame that you think they don't.

To the OP, I agree with what others have said. If you feel that this is best for you, then it is your decision to make.

Choosing to abstain from sex until marriage is not punishing men, it's entirely your choice whether to abstain or not. I will point out though that taking it slow in order to get to know the men better before getting intimate with them does not necessarily equate to needing to be married before having sex. When you are dating someone, just tell him that you want to take things slow and when you decide that you want sex, you do not have to be married to do so. You do not have to have sex if you don't want to.

I thought the only issue was if the woman feels good when you do it. Why would it be horrible at all for the man, ever? I'm being serious. Is BETTER sex really that important? And how would you find out unless you cheated? This is honestly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Exiting means I make a lady happy in a committed relationship, and having fun like hiking, and reading books. Why is sex so important TO THE GUY? Sheesh. All I want is to not mess the heck up.