Emotional and intellectual conflict in dating

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Ah okay, I thought that was what you meant.

But the problem is I do not really know what I want people to love me for. I do not say people should love me for nothing but my personality and not for superficial reasons. That was not what I wanted to say with this. I do not want nor intend to sound nor be hypocritical. Sorry if it came out that way.

On the one hand I do see "leagues" are necessary in some way, because relationships are a social construct. You need to be physically attracted to a partner for it to be great and already at that point leagues are involved because people have different looks. It is just that I emotionally have a hard time accepting that the weak individuals should be "weeded out" because we do not want low-league individuals (and I do not feel I just say this because AS happens to put me in quite a low league so that I too rather quickly should be weeded out). The point of this league-construct is fundamentally to make sure that the strongest individuals reproduce while the weakest are supposed to be servants. I have a very difficult time with the principle in this construct.

I would just like to know how you deal with this league vs. "inner values" dilemma.

I agree. It was what I meant - treating others well, being treated well by others, etc. etc.

And yes I do want a partner for who she is. And to some extent for what I can do for her and what she can do for me, i.e. physical attraction, common interests and humour etc.

If that's what you want, what is the problem? Date somebody who treats you well. Find somebody to date and treat her well.

I see what you mean. Theoretically there should be no problem. I will try to do it. From experience I just find that it always turns into these power struggles. I would love to get "beyond" that.

Uh... I'm 20 and out of school, and the guy I like lives with his parents and only has one friend besides me (that I'm aware of).

Honestly though, I don't want to feel "supported" by the person I like, that feels more like co-dependency to me. I'd rather support myself and go out with someone I like.

But arielhawksquill I am sorry you found it hypocritical, it was not my intention.

I believe "fat chicks" should have just as much a right to reproduce as me or anyone else (given all parents must take responsibility of their child of course). But that does not mean anyone should be "forced" to choose a partner because everyone has that same right. You have to like each other, for whatever reason.

The thing that annoys me is when the whole relationship aspect becomes very social, indicating that not everyone has the same basic right to reproduce. I see this probably just means I should not look for at girl that is too social.

I just do not like the view that not everyone has the same basic right to reproduce (even though some people's genetics will make it easier for them to accomplish this task than others, but that does not change the basic principle). Individuals should be respected. If you do not want someone as your partner, that is all fair, but they could still have your respect as an individual and not be belittled.

I really despise the Hitler-mentality of the "Über-mensch", and that is where the other social notion is heading.

You could just accept it for what it is. Most people aren't going to love someone they aren't attracted to physically. The problem is though, with modern society, we're trained to believe the only thing that matters in love is what's superficial. We're supposed to find the person who blows us away and who we're most compatible with sexually. That's the biggest mistake, we're trained to only focus on the superficial side of a relationship and our sexuality, we're trained to manipulate someone and make it all a game of getting what we want and a power struggle of dominance. If that works for you, more power to you though!

Personally I try to approach dating as I just need the mutual attraction. She doesn't have to be the most beautiful girl in the world, I don't need the perfect blonde blue eyed supermodel. I can't describe exactly what attraction would be for me, other than I see the person, and I like what I see, I guess. It doesn't have to blow me away. If mutual attraction is there, you can focus on your emotional and intellectual wants and determine if that person is right for you - and even then you'll eventually find that a great personality can actually make someone you normally would find doesn't meet the societal standards of attractive, well, just that. That's why the cliche "There's someone for everyone" is entirely true.

I understand your dilemma though - you could meet someone who could love you and treat you wonderfully, but you feel no physical attraction towards them. It's extremely unfair it has to be that way, but for the most part, it just is. I understand there are people who exist who place no value on looks at all, but they are among the minority for sure.

Thank you 886, that is very solid advice. I am glad you joined in. I think you are right about modern society having trained us to (predominantly) think that way. I do not think placing no value on physical attraction is the right way to go about it, it really is important in a relationship. At the same time I just feel I will look back and feel it has been a very empty love-life I have lived if I have never loved a girl for more than what she could do for me. Because then we are back to the "Über-mensch"-mentality. I just cannot accept that is all what there is to love.

Perhaps it is best to come at this from a different angle.

There are steps you can take to make yourself more superficially attractive without compromising your integrity, such as exercise, dressing well and taking a bit more care over your grooming.

Obviously, I don't know you at all, qawer - you may be a male model for all I know! - but it worked for me.

I started lifting weights and drinking less beer. I don't exactly have a rippling six pack, but I'm in MUCH better shape than I was. Since I started this course of action, I have surprised myself on a few occasions by attracting girls I would previously have written off as "out of my league".

I know this is all superficial, but as you have acknowledged, we are all a little bit superficial when it comes to attraction, and you are no exception. Think of this as putting on a suit for an interview for a great job.

It is also possible to "love" someone platonically, even if you are not sexually attracted to them - it sucks to be told you are in that category, but that's another thread for another day...!