Why do people engage in fornication before marriage?

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Well if you want to get hurt feelings, go right ahead. Most people in this thread are agreeing with you.

sex is a glue that holds relationships together at least for a while. marriage is just a social construct. life-bonding animals don't need no stinkin' marriage certificate.

Hello. I have not fornicated myself (though I cannot claim to have been immune to lustful thoughts throughout my meagre 33 years) but I do relate to your confusion. I have had friends whom I am aware that they have engaged in premarital intercourse, but retain some respect for them as often they can in other respects be better than I am (kinder or more honest for example). I can actually get quite depressed by this sort of issue, as it seems to me that what can already be a confusing and terrifying (though exhilarating!) time in life's journey can be made far worse by lack of moral direction and some thoroughly poisonous messages given to young people. I am conscious that human desire can be a very potent compulsion, though I do get annoyed at some speaking as though it were irresistible - as if I have not been resisting it successfully, however covetously and self-pityingly for years - it has helped having friends, including with females. Also, all of us who are not sufficiently depraved to be actual abusers and manipulators must at least much of the time subordinate our selfish desires (not just sexual, but also the desire to always be correct, to have the last word, say really witty but cruel and cutting things to inflate our egos and deflate those of others for example) to our ethical principles, to our faith convictions (if one belongs to any spiritual tradition), and simply to consideration for the needs, emotions and wishes of others if society is not to descend into barbarism. I am conscious that I have a history of obsessive amorous infatuations, which are arguably not a bit more righteous than many people having consummated their relationship prior to or with no intention of wedding, so I think it can be unhealthy of me to presume to judge my fellow humans too severely. I have actually been confused by some asking the opposite question to yours, i.e. asking what philosophical or rational basis for refraining from physically intimate relations prior to matrimonial union. I do not understood this point of view, as like you abstinence prior to and fidelity within wedlock seem intuitively to make sense. Interestingly, while humans disagree wildly on a range of ethical matters, there remain certain things that intuitively most of those of good will concede to be wrong. I have known many young people who do not understand our issue with fornication nevertheless agree that infidelity, or "cheating on someone" is almost instinctively understood to be implicitly wrong; this does not stop many from practicing it! I actually find that even harder to understand - why if one were with someone, in a relatively stable loving relationship (and if not that why be with them at all?) would one risk forfeiting it all for the satisfaction of a moment, when if one is patient and one's spouse or beloved is generous one could enjoy both stability and passion. In any case, how can humans betray those they profess to love - I also have trouble understanding how some men can be either brutal or manipulative in their relations with women, or why some women can be either manipulative (I tend to think of this sort as enchantresses) or indifferent to whose happiness is devastated in their pursuit of desire for either an individual man or a succession; as with a lot of the behaviour of human neurotypicals and some Aspies and others on the autistic spectrum, I struggle to understand how they display either reason or compassion. May I ask how old you are and what if any faith tradition you currently adhere to?

Even as someone with a low libido, I think that is as insane as buying a car sight unseen. How the heck would you know if you would 'fit' or that you are compatible? I have a specific kink that my partner has to share (and she does) in order for me to remain satisfied. If I did not know I would be taking a HUGE gamble with a lifelong commitment. I might drop $10 at the blackjack table but I am not gambling with my entire life's direction.

That might be somewhat exaggerated. Appallingly high, yes. But if you read the book I posted earlier I think much of that falls within social pressures. At some point, divorce became trendy. We say some sweet vows that we'll be together no matter what. And then "no matter what" happens and we run for the door.

Picking on conservative Christians might be short-sighted. Marriages everywhere are falling like flies. Most everyone I go to church with are still in "first-marriages," and these are people within 20 years of our ages. Calling yourself a conservative Christian doesn't magically make you immune from societal pressures to dissolve marriages and take the easy way out.

For something natural, pleasurable, and just plain fun to be considered dirty, immoral, and a sin, all you need is religion.

For the same reason why they do it when they're married to each other. What's so special about being married that you can only have sex when you're married? Also, sex is not for procreation only, if you think that's the only reason to have sex then you're wrong.

I think marriage is archaic and impractical these days and is irrelevant regarding sexuality.

I've been around the block a bit. Have had sex when I wanted to and when I didn't. And I have never had a satisfying sexual experience with another. Actual fornication is most often awkward and unsatisfying. These days I just do it with my partner to satisfy him.

I really don't get society's preoccupation with sex - why make such a big deal of it? It's a somewhat embarrassing biological need, just like going to the bathroom and yet we worship sexuality like a religion.

I'll go off on a tangent and add one more item to this: working. Most children, when they're little, want to do real work. When they dress up as certain occupations and pretend to do their jobs, it looks like play, but it's way more than that. They're trying to tell adults: "Look, give us real work to do!" Instead, we laugh at how cute they look in a fireman outfit, then stick them into prison-like warehouses euphemistically referred to as schools, and make them do chores at home, which are nowhere close to real work. Kids want to work, help feed their families, and contribute to society. Actually contribute! But we're not allowing them! All under the guise of <dramatized tone> "education!! !".

In 1700's, 1800's, even early 1900's, children were borderline fully-functional members of society. At 3, they already had simple jobs, like dumping grain into the henhouse and wiping dust off shelves in a general store. At 8, they were already tending farm animals, using a hammer to assemble wooden crates, and washing a tractor. At 13, they could do most adult jobs, except heavy lifting and corralling calves, although a few boys had the strength to do even that. (School was a few hours a day, and didn't take over kids' lives.) So when they became legal adults, they could already move mountains, not waste away in Margaritaville every weekend (shaker of salt not required).

Even Jesus was allowed to engage in adult activities while growing up. As a child, he was asking "Why?" in reference to the Jewish laws he had to follow, wondering why he couldn't have a glass of milk while eating roasted leg of lamb, and why the tip of his privates had to be snipped. As a teen, he was visiting the Pharisee rabbis in the Jerusalem Temple, and having real conversations with them. It'd be amazing to know how his life would have turned out if the Romans didn't catch wind of his activities, and framed him through their corrupt legal system.

If Jesus lived in today's United States, and questioned the legal system today like he did in 33 A.D., his fate would be very similar. He'd be captured by the Department of Homeland Security, branded a terrorist, interrogated mercilessly, and put into a secret prison with no right to a fair trial or a lawyer to represent him. With Barney songs playing 24/7 for good measure. Basically, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Despite my Jesus examples, I'm speaking as an atheist.

Simply put, because individuals have their own sets of morals and beliefs that may or may not differ from someone else's, and it is solipsistic to project one's own morals and beliefs upon others.

True. One person's "fun" or "kink" may be another person's "sin" or "perversion".Beginning with the belief that others should believe as you or I do.

(Come to think of it, I believe I need some more coffee ... )

Well, you are a highly "religious" individual, and of course you will be confused, and will continue to be confused until you somehow out-grow those indoctrinations.

You might not know this but marriage was originally a pagan-ritual that was later adopted into Christianity. I am also going to "quote" The Messiah (even though Jesus has reincarnated as Terence) on "marriage" as found on his "The TRUTH Document" archives...

Therefore, the "institutionalised" version of marriage is an artificial one, written by the very hand of Jesus (now Terence) himself !

...obviously because of my need to act like a proper gentlemen and give the ladies the satisfaction they desire and deserve ! Also, like it's been said earlier, because it's FUN !

You hold onto many false-beliefs though (then again so does just about everybody else in this whole entire universe, and even from the archives of "spirit-communications" documented by para-normal researchers, I would say that even the beliefs of those "channeled" spirits are also full of falsities). Vegetarianism, for example, has more to do with religious-beliefs than it does to do with health-purposes, and I've actually confirmed this with the very messiah himself (I can dig up the old e-mail on it to quote the correspondence verbatim if wanted).

You are clearly just in denial. Secretly, you actually want to have fun, but are trying to somehow justify yourself against the cognitive-dissonance of your feelings versus what you've been "taught to believe" by your indoctrinators by asking us to throw you any kind of bone that will let you use that as justification to keep yourself in perpetual-denial. Also... because sex is FUN !

See my above quotation that came from the writings of the very messiah himself, and for that matter, you should read up on all of his writings, get yourself up-to-speed on why religious-teachings are so wrong on so many levels, although I suspect that you may just end up repeating history depending on your level-of-indoctrination:

The Jews had rejected Jesus as being a messiah or prophet, due to his birth as a commoner from a horse-stable, rather than birth from a castle as a king, and due to his lack of status of being some kind of military leader to commit massive acts of annihilation and genocide against their "perceived" enemies. They also further-rejected his "rantings" due to going completely against their "cherished" and "established-before-Jesus-was-even-born" beliefs. Sure, the Jesus may have taught some things that aligned with Jewish-beliefs as up grew up in life, but later on during his ministries, that same Jesus also eventually came to realise that just about ALL of their beliefs, due to being already established in society before he was even born, were full of bullocks, and then he started teaching against those false-beliefs accordingly.

Similarly, the Christians™ of today reject Terence (formerly Jesus from his previous life-personality/avatar) on the basis that he's a simple man, that he's not turning water into wine, nor is he walking on water nor did he literally float from out of the sky on clouds with earth-shaking trumpet-sounds (and he's even written himself that anybody who believes that Jesus ever walked on water or turned water into wine has been taken for a serious ride by hoaxers).

The Messiah himself has written that "sex" is NOT a "sinful" act unless it's being forced, coerced, or given freely to abusers. Furthermore, the correct definition of "sin" has more to do with negative-emotions, such as anger, hatred, jealousy, desire to punish/deceive, etc. Think about that for a moment, the "angry" person cannot make "rational" decisions, certainly NOT whilst in the state of angry emotions, due to these negative-emotions having a destructive-controlling effect upon those whom are "infected" with these sinister-emotions, and they will commit "atocities" if left unchecked.

Also, SEX is FUN, you should try it some day !

The Testament of Truth should be read in its entirety by all "Christians™" on earth !

Interesting that we have both brought up the Jesus-character. From what I have read from The Testament of Truth by Terence, his current residence is in Tasmania, although he was originally born as a "white man" in Africa, and he has indeed been accosted by the "legal-system" of Australia (ALL "legal-systems" in just about every country are under the same "Maritime" system by the way), and they had jailed & mistreated him for over five years all because of his initial refusal to pay a "perpetual" 15$AU license-renewal fee (because NOBODY should be receiving that kind of "free annual income" from others in perpetuity), and it's not that he couldn't afford to pay, but he wanted to be sincere and personally show humanity just how run-amok & corrupt that the human legal-systems have become, such that they would go to such lengths just to try & force an elderly 60-year-old man to cough up a mere 15$AU.

Terence has even written the entire accounts of his experiences within his Testament of Truth (I think it was within this section as it was one of the longest sections of his web-site that I had read through but if not then the next-most-likely part of the writings was within this other section).

Edit/Update: Okay, the second section was where it was after all, and I'll quote a small portion of it to give a very small "briefing" on his (mis-)adventures...

The rest of the 400+ pages can be read here...

Which is funny, because I just finished one and expected that since I need a refill, you should need a refill.

I am being facetious there.

A better question would be, "Why do so many allegedly 'Christian' people (and especially their allegedly 'Christian' leaders) seem to commit adultery during their marriages?".

Do any of you self-professed Christians want to answer that one?

Well ... ?

Because, like everything, it is God's will.