Do women desire men who are leaders?

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Venger
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14 Sep 2015, 7:44 pm

KimD wrote:

Klowglas wrote:

Folks, no matter how much we wish it weren't true, humans are animals, and women are biologically programmed to seek out efficient males, leaders manipulate herds and herds of people, ergo leaders are about as efficient as you get in terms of male desirability.

Women not only desire men who are leaders, the rest of the men are invisible, every girl in the class wants the quarterback, every, single, one. Males desire fertile women; women desire resourceful men, leaders are at the top in terms of resources.

This is tremendously simplistic and ignorant. Yes, we are all animals, but we are also complex individuals with varying inborn traits, experiences, personalities, and preferences--if you want to put your money on your stunted hypothesis, you might as well insist that there is no such thing as twilight or dawn, secondary colors, moderate temperatures, or fractions.

Except for roughly 85% of people are f*****g morons for the most part.

Gwenwyn
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15 Sep 2015, 12:50 am

Klowglas wrote:

Biology isn't nearly so simple as you make it out to be. While that kind of sentiment may keep you warm at night, consider that men who WEREN'T leaders were far more likely to survive and be around to help take care of the young. Our 'programming' is far, far more limited in scope. What 'programming' there is also varies distinctly between people. While you may argue that sociopathy, for instance, should have been bred out it clearly still exists and it has been theorized that is because it at times was beneficial. So no one 'program' exists that we all run. As such, no, women are not programmed to prefer leaders. Some do because at certain times that was a beneficial trait to have. Yeesh.

To answer the OP:
Some women clearly prefer leaders, some prefer 'quiet confidence,' while still others like the shy types. I was lucky to find a glorious social-anxiety fellow myself (I like shy guys and social anxiety and shyness are similar traits). <3

Nathaniel75
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15 Sep 2015, 2:45 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:

Nathaniel75 wrote:

yellowtamarin wrote:

I'm very independent and like to be able to follow through with my own ideas and plans if I can. I like a partner to be a collaborator I suppose, in most circumstances, as in, they wouldn't automatically assume the position of leader but instead things would be discussed together. A leader when their plans are the best, a follower when mine are. Joint effort when we both have the same ideas at the same time. I wouldn't be attracted to someone who just tended towards leading all the time as the natural order of things. There has to be a reason to lead, not just leading for the sake of being the leader.

Yikes, looking back I really didn't do a good job of explaining what I meant. Sorry about that. I didn't mean leading in the context of relationships (there should be equality!), but more in the context of work/projects.

Oh, this is in the Love & Dating forum

I meant leadership when it comes to work/projects as it applies to relationships, not leadership in relationships

I'm also very surprised to see using the phrase "quiet confidence" as it is somehow the opposite of "leadership". The most effective kinds of leaders, both in my opinion and in the opinion of several major business management scholars*, are the ones who lead through quiet confidence. However, I think I've learned exactly what I needed to know - people sometimes equate "leader" with "bombastic jerk". I'll need to be cautious of using this term in the future. Thank you all for your feedback, this was a very good lesson for me!

*See Built to Last or 5 Dysfunctions of a Team

BoobooBear
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15 Sep 2015, 3:57 pm

Klowglas wrote:

Nope, I have zero desire to date the "leader", I never lusted after the quarterback and do not get on well with men who have "control freak" or Malcolm Gladwell Maven-like tendencies (ie the need to spend six months comparing and contrasting all of the available kinds of TVs in order to ensure he gets the BEST TV in the whole damn world, who makes a complicated schedule for test driving a million cars and an accompanying spreadsheet in which to evaluate each one on 412 separate attributes). Sone other girls like guys who are leaders -- yay for them.

If fertility is so damn important to men, perhaps you can explain the uber-high percentage of men who marry women aged 45+ here in the U.S. Women who are exceedingly unlikely to be fertile or to conceive a child without medical intervention?

Nathaniel75
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16 Sep 2015, 3:18 am

BoobooBear wrote:

Klowglas wrote:

I'd say that the desire for fertile women is an unconscious thing that most men feel. Since I never want kids, it would theoretically be in my best interest to pursue infertile women. Despite this, my brain says that cute/young women are super attractive. Natural selection, I suppose - men who want fertile women are more likely to reproduce, leading to more men who have the hots for fertile women.

WantToHaveALife
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03 Oct 2015, 2:57 pm

yes unfortuneately they do

Peacesells
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03 Oct 2015, 3:49 pm

WantToHaveALife wrote:

yes unfortuneately they do

Women are individuals and each of them has her own preferences.

KimD
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03 Oct 2015, 5:18 pm

^^ Precisely.

WantToHaveALife
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08 Nov 2015, 2:22 pm

reading this article right here makes it very difficult to not have some hatred and resentment for women because of how they expect us guys to take the lead, to lead them:http://www.seductionscience.com/2015/get-laid-by-leading-success-is-all-on-your-shoulders/

wilburforce
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08 Nov 2015, 2:48 pm

WantToHaveALife wrote:

So don't read articles from sites called idiotic things like "Seduction Science". They are designed to make you feel inferior and unhappy because you are easier to manipulate that way. All that PUA stuff is designed to take advantage of guys who are vulnerable, and you're buying into it by going there and reading their garbage. It's just like fashion magazines and how they are designed to make women feel insecure so they will be more willing to spend lots of money on clothes and makeup so they will feel more beautiful and desirable and less insecure. It's a scam.

WantToHaveALife
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08 Nov 2015, 3:05 pm

wilburforce wrote:

WantToHaveALife wrote:

ya, because the way he mentions it in that article, on leading everything!, hell no, I want some reciprocation, I would rather have sex with a hooker than have to do all of that work!

wilburforce
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08 Nov 2015, 3:08 pm

WantToHaveALife wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

WantToHaveALife wrote:

ya, because the way he mentions it in that article, on leading everything!, hell no, I want some reciprocation, I would rather have sex with a hooker than have to do all of that work!

If that's not even what you want, then I would definitely suggest not reading stuff like that and doing that to yourself, it solves nothing, helps none of your problems, and makes you feel worse about yourself. Such a waste of your time.

MissBearpolar
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09 Nov 2015, 10:09 am

WantToHaveALife wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

WantToHaveALife wrote:

ya, because the way he mentions it in that article, on leading everything!, hell no, I want some reciprocation, I would rather have sex with a hooker than have to do all of that work!

PUA stuff is for the Elliot Rodgers of the world... the desperate and over-entitled and destined-to-be unsuccessful and thus grasping at straws. Yuck.

LillaA
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11 Nov 2015, 7:16 am

MissBearpolar wrote:

WantToHaveALife wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

WantToHaveALife wrote:

ya, because the way he mentions it in that article, on leading everything!, hell no, I want some reciprocation, I would rather have sex with a hooker than have to do all of that work!

PUA stuff is for the Elliot Rodgers of the world... the desperate and over-entitled and destined-to-be unsuccessful and thus grasping at straws. Yuck.

An interesting note, too, is that the focus of PUA "training" is to get a one-night stand, not to build a relationship. The tricks that work great to get a drunk girl back to your bed are not the same ones that work great to establish a real relationship. Most PUAs don't have real, loving relationships...and if they do stumble into one, they quit the PUA stuff once they realize what they have cause they know the PUA stuff is not compatible with a real relationship. PUA stuff is all about learning how to copy someone else to get a short-term goal, not how to be yourself for long-term happiness.

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