What exactly IS a date?

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It's because people aren't totally themselves on 'dates'. There's definitely a version of oneself that one is expected to present, and that makes it uncomfortable if you are aware of this fakeness, as I think a lot of aspies are. I haven't been on any dates that I felt were dates, and I think it was for this reason; to me the version of himself the guy was presenting (trying to be attractive and impressive), was just too transparent.

Yes, one of the things that makes me the most uncomfortable is when they agree with everything you say and only seem to say things that they think you want to hear. I mentioned in a dating profile that I would like to be friends before getting in a relationship and one of the reasons I mentioned it was because it might feel more natural when I meet them, but it didn't seem to make much difference. It can also feel shocking and confusing when they treat you so differently than the people you know irl do.

Absolutely, the constant desire to be pleasing only makes them seem untrustworthy to me. Obviously, they do have an agenda and they are trying to get something, but since I pick up on their behaviour as deceptive it comes across as creepy and overwhelmingly negative (sometimes pathetic), regardless of their actual character or intentions towards me.

I had a similar conversation with my parents about 'charming' people; to me 'charming' denotes falseness, and it makes my skin crawl, but they said it is generally regarded as a positive trait .

I think it's only natural to only put your best face forward, so I don't take issue with some people who fake it. I just wish more people would ONLY put forth their very best. The only people who do that are those who are that way at heart. Unauthentic people burn out and reveal themselves soon enough.

If you're paying for her time, she's a prostitute.

When you're on a date, you don't--or shouldn't--look at it as some sort of business deal. You should be operating on the assumption that the money matters at least a little bit less than having a nice time together. If the money does matter more, then you may be living outside your means, or you may be with the wrong person.

When I was single, I would often pay for at least my half of the bill, unless my date insisted on paying for us both. I didn't think I was far ahead of my time, but if guys are still expected to foot the whole bill, maybe I was.

There's nothing wrong necessarily with a date paying her own way. I don't think it's ahead of your time, or our time. Some traditions stick around for a reason. They just work best.

The prostitution analogy is really a bad one. Prostitution really is a business deal. It's exchanging money for sexual gratification, an arrangement understood from the outset. There is no prospect for an exclusive LTR beyond that. A LTR is a transition period between just meeting and preparation for marriage, family, etc. It's not impossible to make a long-range plan like that with a prostitute, it's just not what they're in the business for. And that ignores the reasons prostitutes hit the streets. Easy money...to do, what, exactly?

No, you aren't buying time in the same way someone makes a business deal or buys bread from the grocery. It's a gift. Gifts are given with no expectation. I want to spend time with you and get to know you. If I totally suck and this is a waste of your time, please accept this as a token of my gratitude. That's all.

For me, paying your own way isn't exactly a deal breaker. It just upsets the balance between my purpose for spending time with you and making sure it doesn't waste your time. I want to thank you for choosing me over any number of things you could have been doing. Paying your way effectively says, "Thanks, but no thanks." If I think you aren't interested, I may not ask for a second date. As far as I'm concerned, you already paid your way just by showing up. If you pay your half, I feel indebted to you. And I suspect trying to covertly even the score is going to be a big turn-off for you, anyway. It CAN work, but in general those situations make me uncomfortable.

^ I brought up prostitution because of the words you used, and the impression they gave me. I'm making a point about how it sounded, not nit-picking or being scientifically literal. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

For me, offering to pay for at least part of the date was my way of saying, "Don't think I owe you sex because you bought me dinner," or "I'm not a gold-digger," or "I'm not materialistic," or "I'm self-sufficient," or "I know you're not rich and I don't want you to feel or actually be burdened by tonight," or "You and your happiness are more important to me than money," or "I want you to have enough money left for us to go out again; I had a good time, too." In the end, to each his/her own--pay, don't pay, split the bill, do something that doesn't actually cost money--whatever.

It's a good idea to try to understand dating (to whatever extend that's possible), but if anyone, anywhere, spends too much analyzing it, they won't have much time to actually go on one.

My husband and I have been very happy together even before we actually were considered boyfriend and girlfriend--about 28 years ago. We both feel incredibly lucky that it worked out the way it did, but it probably wasn't just coincidence. I wish that more people in the world would stop wasting time staying in long-term relationships with people who are clearly bad for them, because they end up making each other and those who care about them miserable. However, it's become clear to me that there's not much I or anyone else outside those pairings can do about it. We can give our loved ones advice when appropriate, listen to them, and stand by them when they need help or support, but it's really up to them to try to figure out what they want in a partner, to make mature, responsible choices, and treat each other with respect and compassion.

Good stuff! I respectfully disagree on the paying your own for reasons I've already mentioned. But you do make an excellent point: Nobody OWES anyone sex just because that person buys them dinner. There are whiny "Nice Guys" out there who can't seem to get past that. Whether a date leads to sex or not is going to depend on the couple and if they both agree to go there. It's shameful that guys attach expectations to dinner. I think it spoils the whole thing. Paying your own way would sidestep that, certainly.

There's another solution: Ask HIM out. Now you're the one wanting a date and it will be up to you pick up the bill.

LTRs... Hmmm... I don't usually write about getting to marriage from LTR because people here have trouble enough just getting to the relationship stage. By the time 6 months to a year has passed, you're going to know if marriage is a possibility. Personally, I prefer a year-long engagement, but some people advise against waiting that long. I really do think that the first time you meet someone to wedding day should be no less than 3 years. First off, if you aren't serious about anyone, you're casually seeing any number of people. You may take some time narrowing your dating pool, but within a year you pretty much know you want something serious with someone. It just takes time for someone else to reciprocate, so in actual practice moving towards an exclusive relationship might take longer.

Once you get to LTR status, you start to see your partner more the way they are when they don't think you're watching. That's when you really find out if you can live with that person. Talk about having children, your own families, career plans, etc. Make sure BOTH your families approve.

Engagement is good for a year, I think. Mainly it's to see how close you want to live to the in-laws (do NOT buy a house the first year you're married). Talk about outstanding debts and what you plan to do about it. Planning the big day itself and the honeymoon. Agree on who gives up an apartment and moved in, or if you both move into a new apartment. I don't believe in shacking up. Once you get your shtuff together, it should all run smooth.

Excellent work on the 28 years! It seems folks like us are a rarity.

Honestly I don't know. Doesn't really matter since for whatever reason I'm completely unattractive. If I wanted to get to know someone I'd rather do real activities together than some stupid formal thing with preset expectations where you just work to impress each other.

Back in ancient history, my last ex who was pretty much the king of the chivalrous formulae: roses+opening car doors+'my lady' gestures seemed to use the roses part as his definition of what was a date, and what was just going out. I'm not sure what a date 'is', either. But I did find out from this last guy, (no hard feelings towards him), that I found the aforementioned formula dull, but maybe that was more because of us and not the date. I like to think that perhaps, like the presentation of roses gesture, there is some sort of officiality to a date that makes the event stand out from a more casual setting between a couple.