Games or are they...?

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I hate to say it, but I agree with Luhluh. It's mostly about wanting sex and not wanting women to give them a difficult time over it.

Now let's be honest. Some women are just as bad as guys and just want sex. I've had sex with women and was up front about my intentions to basically scratch an itch, and they echoed the sentiment. So there are women to be had with no games. Thing is, probably most women are leaning towards relationships, even if they insist on NSA. One girl I was with began having a regular fling with me because things were bad with her fiance. She was getting attached to me, so we sat down together, talked it out, and agreed that what we were doing wasn't really for the best. We spoke off and on after that, no hard feelings. But I wonder if it's just a biological thing that women find it more difficult to flip that switch the way guys often do.

Also, faking an interest isn't so bad. I'm more interested in PEOPLE. So if it matters to you, it "matters" to me, too. I'm going to find it easier to talk to people who are interested in what I'm interested in, so usually I try to seek out people who do what I do who can help me do my job better. It's always quid pro quo out there. You have to meet people where they are, meet their needs, build them up, make them feel important.

Dating is no different. Even if you're totally faking it, the point is you (as a guy) spent time and effort to make a girl feel special and important. EVERYONE wants this, men, women, whatever. If making someone feel important is what you value, maybe you fake the first conversation. But in the long term, you become interested in their interests to keep building them up.

It's the Golden Rule. Do more for others than for yourself. If you want people to be interested in you, you must first be interested.

As far as playing games go, it's really simple: Don't associate with girls who play games. I've always been up front regarding my intentions. Sometimes she digs me and doesn't care. Other times she's just not feeling it. That's ok, because whether it's just sex or a relationship, neither of us want to be with someone we're not on the same page with.

I view rejection as a positive thing, which is what this is really about: Men getting all butthurt over a string of rejections by women they have no business approaching in the first place. All it means we're not wasting our time. I wish more guys would come to see it that way.

Women are more likely to play the game to get what they want - I'd say that's usually if she wants a baby and someone to help her pay for it.

She'll stick around with any guy and find a way to get pregnant (whether it's on purpose and the guy is aware of it or by sabotaging her birth control). She'll play house with him for a while, then decide she's bored and divorce him and get child support from him.

Both sexes have their ways to get what they really want.

^ A pattern I have noticed from the single moms I meet on dating sites:

They always claim to fall in love with me like after 2-3 dates only!

I seriously suspect them.

Totally agree. Of course, not all men are horny sociopaths and not all women are superficial gold-diggers. The rules of dating are illogical, the game is rigged, and both sexes use the tools at their disposal to get what they want.

But us aspie men don't have any tools at our disposal

Fewer or different tools in some cases. Generally though the "find activity that attracts women and feign interest until results are yielded" model of dating would be seen as disingenuous and untrustworthy or in some cases construed as quite predatory. All relationships, romantic or otherwise are really just trial and error interactions until things that match enough (rather than perfectly) interact. Sometimes it's quick, sometimes it's slow.

Fake it until you make it is effective, though. Some women like bowling. I suck at bowling and am not in the least interested in it. What's important is that SHE likes it. If you care about someone, you'll value what they value. Call me disingenuous if you like, but it works.

Heck, you can even be up front about it. "No, I don't care for bowling. I just want to hang out with you. Maybe you can teach me a few things or have a laugh at my expense! Come on, let's go have a good time." It works.

I like bowling.

I used to watch bowling on TV when I was a kid.

This is why I avoid not just emotional intimacy, but sexual intimacy as well. (Kissing? Hell yeah! Oral? Maybe if I'm drunk. Intercourse? Absolutely not!) Trusting sex partners has become all but impossible, at least not without putting yourself in harm's way and/or ruining your life.

The only sex partners I feel truly safe with are escorts. (And even they can be an indirect source of danger: cops foaming at the mouth at the thought of arresting me.)

This is perfect. No lie is told, there's no false pretense and it's sweet. Who doesn't want to be told, "I want to spend time with you", by someone they want to spend time with.

And aren't men equally as likely to play the game?

Yeah well I think that's where this thread all started and that point has already been made lol - both sexes have ways to play the game to get what they want.

I feel put off when guys would seem to agree with everything I say because it makes them seem desperate for someone and it's also manipulative so I couldn't feel like I could trust them.

Too funny you mentioned it. I remember doing just that with my first girlfriend. Always going along with what she wanted, always rearranging my entire day around her schedule, always agreeing with her. I was indeed desperate for a relationship back then (not so much sex), so that felt like the only way to go about it. Boy, was I wrong.

When I was growing up, my family and their friends used to tell me: "When you find a significant other, you will always have to give in to her and listen to her." Even before I discovered PUA, that felt really unfair. And now, exponentially so.

Yes, always say no to her.

Sure. But men also get accused of being desperate and manipulative when they assertively disagree. We're labeled abusers if we dare make a stand for something important or possessive if we try to keep the boundaries of our relationship secure.

But, honestly, the strongest relationships are like that. Building trust and security is an ongoing lifelong effort, so we all have to have the power to assert ourselves, say no, and respect our SO regardless of the situation. My SO asked if I'd be ok with her meeting up with her former boss after he in effect asked her for a date. Of course I'm not ok with that! I'm fortunate to be in the kind of relationship where I can refuse something and not get punished for it. I don't know many women who regard their SO in that way.

BTW, this is the kind of disagreement you really only get with a LTR after you are totally committed to each other and agree ahead of time how certain situations will be handled. You can't really get this in the early stages when you're still only getting to know each other.

But as far as pretending interest to get the girl goes, it's an effective tactic. Not just for romantic relationships but for making friends overall. You don't even have to hide that you're doing it. You just have to remember that to be attractive to someone, you have to build them up and make them feel important. People flee negativity like a plague. People dislike haters and complainers and whiners. So even if you really do have a bad attitude, you do better to hide it and keep a smile on your face.

Keeping the focus on the other person and her interests is key. Once it becomes about you, you've lost. Why? Because everyone is selfish. They don't care about you, only what they can get out of you. So if you actually care about someone, there's going to be some fakery involved because you're going to put their needs and interests ahead of your own. The more you genuinely care about someone, the easier it is to keep that up. If you don't really value the person, it's going to be difficult. If it's all about sex or how good you look with a gf, you'll burn out eventually. Or worse, you'll try to change the person you're with to suit what you want instead of being what the other person wants.

Of course, you can point out that just enables the other's selfishness and doesn't really get you anything in return. The idea is that in the end everyone looks after each other in a way that is mutually beneficial. You have to focus strictly on the other's interests. Well, if he or she is interested in you, why not talk about yourself? If the other really wants to do something you like, why not indulge them? It works both ways. But starting out, no, there's always going to be a lot of pretending because you want to get to know your date, build them up, make them feel special.

Some people might see that as manipulative. I just fail to see what's wrong with caring about someone else.