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humansynrome
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04 Mar 2017, 11:03 am

BTDT wrote:
Does she know you are on the spectrum? I read what your wrote twice and missed that really important information.

For instance, you wrote "my therapists." Which, I know from the way some people on the spectrum think, could exclude any people involved in couples therapy, as those people are "her no therapists." Though it does sound like couples therapy is merely a hypothetical at this point.


When I said, "my therapists" I said that only because I've seen so many. Anyone I would see with or with out her, I would consider a therapist of mine, and yes we have not seen a couple's counselor yet....

Ohh and sorry for not being clear but yes she does know I'm an aspie :wink:



Last edited by humansynrome on 04 Mar 2017, 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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04 Mar 2017, 11:12 am

IMHO, If something seems ingrained in a person, particularly an adult, it is really really highly unlikely that they will change to any great extent. From what I've seen, people are who they are - you either can accept that if its not too bad in your opinion or you need to finish hardening your spine and take care of yourself by moving her out.

It doesn't sound like it will be easy. You need space now. Does she love you enough to let you have that space with no guarantees for the future?



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04 Mar 2017, 11:46 am

It is pretty clear what happened. You made significant changes for the sake of the relationship. Now you need to change back to what you what you were before. Obviously she wants the "you" she knew when you first met, not the "you" that need to change back to. A very difficult discussion is needed at this point.



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04 Mar 2017, 11:52 am

BTDT wrote:
It is pretty clear what happened. You made significant changes for the sake of the relationship. Now you need to change back to what you what you were before. Obviously she wants the "you" she knew when you first met, not the "you" that need to change back to. A very difficult discussion is needed at this point.


This is a valid and perceptive point that I failed to fully see at first. Still, she seems like the type of person who is overly forceful and pushes to always have her way. I'd run away from that as fast as I can.



humansynrome
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04 Mar 2017, 12:14 pm

BTDT wrote:
It is pretty clear what happened. You made significant changes for the sake of the relationship. Now you need to change back to what you what you were before. Obviously she wants the "you" she knew when you first met, not the "you" that need to change back to. A very difficult discussion is needed at this point.


Thanks for giving me something I can work with! I think you hit the nail right on the head. How do I say this to her? I can tell she hates what I've become. ....as in, becoming myself again, instead of her Ken doll.....I'm not willing to go back to that ever again, I completely lost myself for her sake but she can't see it, or isn't willing .



humansynrome
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04 Mar 2017, 12:22 pm

How do you think I should ask her to respect my need for sspace with out making her upset? She seems to take a lot of things personally, when I don't mean to at all. She sees any attempt to have some space, as me sabotaging our relationship. Gets mad when I'm not physically touching her ALL the time. Its burning me out :?



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04 Mar 2017, 12:32 pm

humansynrome wrote:
How do you think I should ask her to respect my need for sspace with out making her upset? She seems to take a lot of things personally, when I don't mean to at all. She sees any attempt to have some space, as me sabotaging our relationship. Gets mad when I'm not physically touching her ALL the time. Its burning me out :?


Not trying to be cavalier, but this sounds like the unstoppable force meeting the immovable mountain.
Either you never upset her and you leave things the way they are or you and her manage to communicate.
She does not seem able to see things from your perspective- she is on the spectrum as well?
If she cannot compromise and you cannot reason with her, how can you work on your relationship?



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04 Mar 2017, 12:50 pm

There is a huge difference in the needs for touching and affection between NTs and Aspies.
She sees her needs as normal, because, as far as I can tell, they actually are in the "NT world"

While she may know you are on the spectrum, she has no way of knowing your needs except via her experiences, which, in this case, were inaccurate. This is perhaps the most frustrating part of being on the spectrum. You can't point to say, Sheldon on BBT and say, I'm exactly like that.



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04 Mar 2017, 1:01 pm

beady wrote:
IMHO, If something seems ingrained in a person, particularly an adult, it is really really highly unlikely that they will change to any great extent. From what I've seen, people are who they are - you either can accept that if its not too bad in your opinion or you need to finish hardening your spine and take care of yourself by moving her out.

It doesn't sound like it will be easy. You need space now. Does she love you enough to let you have that space with no guarantees for the future?

Very much agree here.

I'd been to some counseling in the past, and my ex insisted we do some counseling prior to our breakup. I went to be nice, but basically admitted I was no longer interested in fixing things.

When I talk about her here, it's usually in a negative light. I still stand behind everything I said from my own perspective. But I have to also admit that she is much happier now. If I'm being honest, I was just as bad for her. She always insisted that I had to change, like she didn't have to do any work on herself. Not only could she not admit she needed to change, she saw no real need. Which means really we all think we are fine just the way we are. The truth is we are all just equally bad for each other. The best way to go is simply accepting others the way they are and only changing to be a better person for yourself.

From what I've seen, and I could be wrong, but relationship counseling seems to favor the woman. Her mind is already made up, so even if the counselor favors you, she's going to bias any takeaway that you get once you leave the office. In essence if you have to agree to counseling, it's already too late.

If you absolutely MUST do counseling, if one of you asks or demands relationship counseling, it's only fair that the other person picks the therapist. Personally, I think given bias towards women, the man should do the picking...but that might be unfair. I suspect the women will most often take the initiative, so the men would usually pick the therapist anyway.

The reason why this would work best for both is this: Whoever initiates (asks for) counseling will seek a therapist who could possibly or likely be biased in his or her favor. Allowing the partner to choose puts all the trust and power in the partner's hands. The partner COULD choose a counselor who could just as easily be biased in his or her favor, too, though, but of there's going to be any healing in the relationship, the two of you have to share power and responsibility. Because you give your partner that power, you should expect that whoever he or she gets will be fair and impartial.

But before you set foot in a therapist's office, observe how she responds. If SHE demands counseling and you ask to pick a therapist neither one of you know, how does she take it? If she's foaming-at-the-mouth against it, you're in trouble. That means she either doesn't trust you or she has control issues, or some combination of the two. No trust=no relationship. Control issues=abuser=no relationship. That's the litmus test. That's why this will work. If she can't pass this little test, then "there is no us."



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05 Mar 2017, 7:07 am

I think this is partly your own fault. You cannot take the position of "the perfect man" and do everything, and then suddenly change your mind. Regardless of how the other person is, this will create a lot of tension when things change for the worse for them. At a minimum, you should expect quite some time of adjusting to this. Same with first wanting to be with her always, and then wanting your own life. Nobody will be positive to such a change, and it will create arguments and fights. In fact, you gave her the wrong idea about your preferences, which was not nice to her.

In addition to that, your jealousy cannot be solely her problem, rather it has to be partly your problem. Actually, this attitude from you will erode trust between you, which will be fatal to your relationship. Also, it is normal for women to only use makeup and perfume when with strangers or acquaintances, so there is nothing strange with that. You actually cannot provide any evidence at all that she is cheating on you, so it is possible that this is all in your mind.



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05 Mar 2017, 12:59 pm

rdos wrote:
I think this is partly your own fault. You cannot take the position of "the perfect man" and do everything, and then suddenly change your mind. Regardless of how the other person is, this will create a lot of tension when things change for the worse for them. At a minimum, you should expect quite some time of adjusting to this. Same with first wanting to be with her always, and then wanting your own life. Nobody will be positive to such a change, and it will create arguments and fights. In fact, you gave her the wrong idea about your preferences, which was not nice to her.

In addition to that, your jealousy cannot be solely her problem, rather it has to be partly your problem. Actually, this attitude from you will erode trust between you, which will be fatal to your relationship. Also, it is normal for women to only use makeup and perfume when with strangers or acquaintances, so there is nothing strange with that. You actually cannot provide any evidence at all that she is cheating on you, so it is possible that this is all in your mind.


Honestly, Thank you for being so honest. I think you're right and I've come to that realization my self over the last few days. I was so busy trying to pass the blame over to her, that I fell short of taking responsibility for my own actions. I was wrong (whether manipulated or not) to lead her on. I didn't realize at the time, what I was doing.

I can't blame her for wanting something that was suited to fit her needs. I just wish I would have realized that at first. I worry I have dragged this out for too long now and that she might not love the person I really am. I was so consumed with, (like you said) "being that perfect man" and tailoring my life to fit hers, that I actually lost touch of my roots, my own self....It's a tough one for me to swallow but that is the truth of it and I'm done playing the blame game. I still love her and I still want her but I need the ability to still be my self, I'm willing to be patient as well, because like you said and understandably so, it could take her some time to adjust to that.

I'm not gonna take all the blame though, I was wronged in some ways that still hurt me. I forgive her for it but I still think it's fair for me to expect that she doesn't repeat those things....I don't want to elaborate on that issue on a public forum but it's something we both talked about and she apologized for. As for the possibility that she may be cheating or the possibility that it may all be in my head...well ya they're both possible and I'm willing to accept that I could be completely wrong but my gut just tells me otherwise, that's all. Plus I guess history plays a role in that too, it's hard to think she wouldn't when she has many other times.....

Either way I'm not letting any of that bother me anymore because whats done is done, I just want to move forward from here, with her knowing that I've changed and I'm probabaly different than what she thought I'd be but I'm still here for her, if she can still be there for new me, the person I had to become, for myself.....



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05 Mar 2017, 2:59 pm

rdos wrote:
I think this is partly your own fault. You cannot take the position of "the perfect man" and do everything, and then suddenly change your mind. Regardless of how the other person is, this will create a lot of tension when things change for the worse for them. At a minimum, you should expect quite some time of adjusting to this. Same with first wanting to be with her always, and then wanting your own life. Nobody will be positive to such a change, and it will create arguments and fights. In fact, you gave her the wrong idea about your preferences, which was not nice to her.

In addition to that, your jealousy cannot be solely her problem, rather it has to be partly your problem. Actually, this attitude from you will erode trust between you, which will be fatal to your relationship. Also, it is normal for women to only use makeup and perfume when with strangers or acquaintances, so there is nothing strange with that. You actually cannot provide any evidence at all that she is cheating on you, so it is possible that this is all in your mind.

Ah, I get it...blame the victim. Well-played!
Image



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05 Mar 2017, 4:23 pm

humansynrome wrote:
I'm not gonna take all the blame though, I was wronged in some ways that still hurt me.


You shouldn't. I'm sure she also have a role in the current situation. It just was too one-sided when everybody decided she was the "bad girl" and responsible for everything that went wrong.

humansynrome wrote:
Either way I'm not letting any of that bother me anymore because whats done is done, I just want to move forward from here, with her knowing that I've changed and I'm probabaly different than what she thought I'd be but I'm still here for her, if she can still be there for new me, the person I had to become, for myself.....


I like that attitude. Good luck with it, whatever the outcome.



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05 Mar 2017, 9:30 pm

humansynrome wrote:
Hey guys I'm new to this forum, well I had another username but steered away from WP awhile ago, so kinda new anyways.

I'm 30 and am engaged to a wonderful women but lately s**ts been hitting the fan quite a bit. I'm not pointing a finger here (at least not intentionly) but things were going so dam good it was almost too good to be true. We've been on and off since high school and this last time around we were much more serious, dedicated and mature so things kind of fell into place faster then I had imagined. Now two years later we are living together, and hopefully on our way to getting married.

I don't want to say I felt forced into this position but I definitely had some pressure (some very subtle pressure) put on me to put a ring on her finger. So I did, even though I was starting to have my doubts about us.

I've caught her lying to my face multiple times when I thought she was cheating on me, it was one story after another and while I was crying in disbelief that she would do that to me, she's sitting there making up new stories that just didn't add up at all. I can't say for sure she did cheat, but my stomach said she definitely had something going on.

Ever since that day I've had such a hard time believing a lot of what she says, I find my self picking apart everything she does or says in my head and it's making me go crazy. I've caught her lying about what seemed to be really stupid coincidences (and I don't believe in coincidences, if you catch my drift).

I'm afraid now that we're living together, my true me has came out and has got her second guessing our future. I feel like I tried too hard in the beginning, fooling myself and her about my true personality. I tried so hard to act "normal" and adhered to her rigid lifestyle like it was my lifeline. I became a stay-at-home-boyfriend and she loved it. Her house was always spotless dishes were always done and dinner was always hot, and I was always ready for....we'll you know :wink:

Now I've zero ambition to do much of anything. I feel like I got more than I signed up for, she even want's to have a kid, like yesterday. She's always good to me, like really good to me but I feel like it's all so she can get the attention she craves so badly. Almost like I'm being manipulated into loving her or something.

We've both been loosing sleep and fighting a lot and we're both burnt out mentally. I've lost a ton of weight, she's gained some, I've been having more frequent seizures and our pets are even acting depressed...it's horrible how it feels. I just basically put my foot down and told her I will not be lead on with leash, told her straight forward that I'm done doing things just to please you and that I want some of my personal life back....It got pretty rough after that to say the least.

She knows I get restless at night and it's really hard for me to sleep while snuggling, it's even tough to sleep on the same bed as her sometimes, because I just feel so uncomfortable....She's so good at deceiving it's crazy, literally a goddess at it. I can see though her now that I've had so long to study her, and I'm afraid I'm not compatible with what I see.

I can't handle having everything done a certain way at a certain time...I'm a just go with it and hope for the best, kinda guy and she needs everything to her way. All the decorations are what she wants up, bed time, time to wake up, what when and how much the dogs get fed, everything seems like it's her way and I've got no say in anything around here. She admits to being a control freak so that was almost reassuring knowing that she can actually admit to that but I still feel really depressed and out of control in this relationship.

Sorry for the rant but how do I get her to respect my private life and allow me to be silent and/or alone sometimes? If I can't sleep she gets really upset and lays down the guilt if I go in the living room to watch tv or write (I love to write) she even said that she is jealous of how I "shower" my dog with love and affection but am so cold with her.....well to be honest my dog doesn't lie to my face to make me feel sh***y for doing anything I might want to do, that doesn't involve her. Her insatiable appetite for attention, sex and love is just crazy, way more then I feel comfortable with....God I just feel like I'm on edge of a cliff right now, it sucks so much.

Can anyone relate to my situation or give some advice?

Thanks in advance guys and gals!


There is a saying that a relationship has to be built on trust, and I would agree with that. As far as you doing things to make her happy, and her doing things to make you happy...that is not manipulation, that's what people should do in a relationship.

That being said, I don't think your relationship is beyond salvageable. Getting married is a big change in life, and people on the spectrum tend to have difficulties with change, even when they are fine after the fact. Why don't you two go get some premarital counseling together?



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05 Mar 2017, 11:23 pm

Chronos wrote:
humansynrome wrote:
Hey guys I'm new to this forum, well I had another username but steered away from WP awhile ago, so kinda new anyways.

I'm 30 and am engaged to a wonderful women but lately s**ts been hitting the fan quite a bit. I'm not pointing a finger here (at least not intentionly) but things were going so dam good it was almost too good to be true. We've been on and off since high school and this last time around we were much more serious, dedicated and mature so things kind of fell into place faster then I had imagined. Now two years later we are living together, and hopefully on our way to getting married.

I don't want to say I felt forced into this position but I definitely had some pressure (some very subtle pressure) put on me to put a ring on her finger. So I did, even though I was starting to have my doubts about us.

I've caught her lying to my face multiple times when I thought she was cheating on me, it was one story after another and while I was crying in disbelief that she would do that to me, she's sitting there making up new stories that just didn't add up at all. I can't say for sure she did cheat, but my stomach said she definitely had something going on.

Ever since that day I've had such a hard time believing a lot of what she says, I find my self picking apart everything she does or says in my head and it's making me go crazy. I've caught her lying about what seemed to be really stupid coincidences (and I don't believe in coincidences, if you catch my drift).

I'm afraid now that we're living together, my true me has came out and has got her second guessing our future. I feel like I tried too hard in the beginning, fooling myself and her about my true personality. I tried so hard to act "normal" and adhered to her rigid lifestyle like it was my lifeline. I became a stay-at-home-boyfriend and she loved it. Her house was always spotless dishes were always done and dinner was always hot, and I was always ready for....we'll you know :wink:

Now I've zero ambition to do much of anything. I feel like I got more than I signed up for, she even want's to have a kid, like yesterday. She's always good to me, like really good to me but I feel like it's all so she can get the attention she craves so badly. Almost like I'm being manipulated into loving her or something.

We've both been loosing sleep and fighting a lot and we're both burnt out mentally. I've lost a ton of weight, she's gained some, I've been having more frequent seizures and our pets are even acting depressed...it's horrible how it feels. I just basically put my foot down and told her I will not be lead on with leash, told her straight forward that I'm done doing things just to please you and that I want some of my personal life back....It got pretty rough after that to say the least.

She knows I get restless at night and it's really hard for me to sleep while snuggling, it's even tough to sleep on the same bed as her sometimes, because I just feel so uncomfortable....She's so good at deceiving it's crazy, literally a goddess at it. I can see though her now that I've had so long to study her, and I'm afraid I'm not compatible with what I see.

I can't handle having everything done a certain way at a certain time...I'm a just go with it and hope for the best, kinda guy and she needs everything to her way. All the decorations are what she wants up, bed time, time to wake up, what when and how much the dogs get fed, everything seems like it's her way and I've got no say in anything around here. She admits to being a control freak so that was almost reassuring knowing that she can actually admit to that but I still feel really depressed and out of control in this relationship.

Sorry for the rant but how do I get her to respect my private life and allow me to be silent and/or alone sometimes? If I can't sleep she gets really upset and lays down the guilt if I go in the living room to watch tv or write (I love to write) she even said that she is jealous of how I "shower" my dog with love and affection but am so cold with her.....well to be honest my dog doesn't lie to my face to make me feel sh***y for doing anything I might want to do, that doesn't involve her. Her insatiable appetite for attention, sex and love is just crazy, way more then I feel comfortable with....God I just feel like I'm on edge of a cliff right now, it sucks so much.

Can anyone relate to my situation or give some advice?

Thanks in advance guys and gals!


There is a saying that a relationship has to be built on trust, and I would agree with that. As far as you doing things to make her happy, and her doing things to make you happy...that is not manipulation, that's what people should do in a relationship.

That being said, I don't think your relationship is beyond salvageable. Getting married is a big change in life, and people on the spectrum tend to have difficulties with change, even when they are fine after the fact. Why don't you two go get some premarital counseling together?

People "should" do nice things for each other because they WANT to, not because they feel pressures or demands. This is easy if you actually care about someone. Not so easy if you don't.

The trouble is marriage doesn't really change who you are. People don't just change like that. I think people become blinded by emotions of love they forget who they are, promising to do what it takes to keep someone when that's not what they really want. We tend to obsess over this idealized fantasy we construct of a person and try to force her to fit that mold. When she can't be made to fit, we decide to change ourselves in order to hang on to our obsession. Ultimately we lose ourselves in the relationship and eventually struggle to figure out just who we are or who this person is we think we love.

You either insist on only finding someone who meets that exacting ideal, or you chill the freak out and accept her for who she is. I'm IAR with someone who both meets that ideal for me AND has complementary differences that enhance and strengthen our lives together. She "completes me," to borrow the cliche. You won't find that with every partner in every relationship and that's ok as long as you go into it knowing who this person is, who you are, and don't get lost in it.



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06 Mar 2017, 3:49 am

AngelRho wrote:
People "should" do nice things for each other because they WANT to, not because they feel pressures or demands. This is easy if you actually care about someone. Not so easy if you don't.

The trouble is marriage doesn't really change who you are. People don't just change like that. I think people become blinded by emotions of love they forget who they are, promising to do what it takes to keep someone when that's not what they really want. We tend to obsess over this idealized fantasy we construct of a person and try to force her to fit that mold. When she can't be made to fit, we decide to change ourselves in order to hang on to our obsession. Ultimately we lose ourselves in the relationship and eventually struggle to figure out just who we are or who this person is we think we love.


I disagree to that. Love and emotions are not the problems, to the contrary. Without those components (like a friendship turned relationship), people have no incitement to compromise, and basically, every functional relationship involves compromises, sooner or later. You might be able to avoid it in the beginning by matching on interests and a lot of other traits, but people change with time, so they always end up needing to know how to compromise.

Unlike what you think, obsessing about your loved one is healthy because it builds attachment, and attachment is the only thing that can keep people together in the long run. It also makes people more likely to compromise when this need arise. Personally, I'd dump a friend straight away if he/she becomes a burden, or if I no longer can see any use in the friendship, but I'm unable to do that with a partner I'm attached to.