I could never make a move....sexually that is
There is a natural treatment for shyness and fear of rejection. It works like this:
(1) Develop a mad crush on someone
(2) Be afraid to do anything about it
(3) Watch them get involved with somebody else, and feel really awful
(4) Kick yourself for letting your fear keep you in endless procrastination
(5) Go back to (1) and repeat
Yes, being rejected is extremely unpleasant, and will make your already low level of confidence even lower. But it's over with fairly quickly. The alternative is a trail of regrets which goes on forever.
You will probably clumsily botch things at first, but eventually you will do better. And the times when you don't get rejected will do wonders for your confidence.
I had the same problem with my first two girflriends. The second one eventually made a move herself, but from there after, she left it up to me...this was the main reason the relationship ended...two months later.
My third relationship lasted well over a year. I used the inability to make a move in the previous two as motivation not to let it happen again. We were out with friends at a movie...towards the end I determined that I would not walk out of the theatre without making an attempt. I think I may have given her a slight scare, as it may have been a little rapid, or unexpected. Nonetheless, it broke the ice...
If you've been seeing someone for a considerable amount of time, and they haven't indicated otherwise, it's probably going to be welcome in whatever form it takes. But I guess courage is the issue...just remember that it's not the end of the world and eventually any awkwardness will be overshadowed and humored by good things.
Here's the way to make the first move. Try holding their hand. See how they respond. Hand holding is very easy to do if you do it casually. If you're walking with them, walk closely to them and wait for your hand to bump into theirs and grab on. You can try using an excuse to holding their hand, such as taking their hand to lead them away from something. Or, if you're up to it, just grab it and hold on. They may break the hand holding after a while, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If there's an excuse to it, then that's OK. If they complain about your sweaty palms, maybe you should reconsider. If you're sitting around somewhere, holding hands will work as well. I usually try to use an excuse, such as asking to see that ring they're wearing, I take their hand and look at it, ask them what significance it has, then just keep holding onto their hand while they tell me about it.
The way to make the move towards the first kiss is a little more complicated. Girls will do the usual grooming gestures, eye contact, etc... Also, look for them to play with their lips, licking them, or pinching them, or biting them. Wait for a break in the conversation, see if she maintains eye contact with you while you've both shut up for a moment. This is your chance, start to lean in and hopefully she'll lean in as well. Kiss her. If she pulls back, abort, and start over from the beginning. After the first kiss is well received, it's much easier from there on out because you know she wants to kiss you. Also, everything starts with a kiss, so from there on out, you're on your own.
couldnt have put it better myself.
one thing you could also try after you've made the initial judgement of "does she like me = yes", NT's always look at you for a while. silently. without saying anything. My natural reaction to that is to say "what? ... what?... what have i done?.... WHAT?!", but dont let that happen

when something like that happens and you think it might be time, you could always ASK! rejection is something we need to learn to understand so we can avoid it (Well thats the way i see it). Making the situation yours, commanding it even, is the goal of social interaction for me. So that means try asking her something like
"hey, can i ask you a question?"
"yeah"
"hmm... can i kiss you?" (dont say it creepy. say it kinda shyly.. which shouldnt be a problem

the answer can be 3 - 4 things
1. yes (w00t!)
2. no ('bah!)
3. maybe ( ill tell you what it means in a minute )
4. lets go do something, go somewhere, be somewhere else, be friends.
1 is self explainatory, so go go go!
2. is the same. but dont let it get you down. you have a supercool friend with you now so you dont have to be on your ownsome. it could also mean something else like they arent interested in a relationship, not just with you, but in general. they need alone time like we do as well. things like that. in other words, try not to dwell on it. i used to, put it into my head and run the scenario over and over and over, making me madder and madder and madder and it just didnt work. best not to go that path
3. Maybe is awesome. Maybe means yes (for a kiss only.. read: FOR A KISS ONLY). it generally means they're too shy to say yes to you. RARELY does it mean no. If you go in for one, then they draw back away from you, its a no (so read number 2 above). Most of the time its a wicked yes (so read number 1 above)
4. is essentially a no. sorry kid, but its a distraction away from the romantic moment. like i said though, dont let it get you down.
its all about learning how to read the persons body language which you have to treat as a special interest.
hope it helped a bit
--Sken
I know exactly what you mean, Bixbeiderbecke. Both times in the past that I had sex, I was not the one to instigate it. (Meaning, both times, it was her idea.) So now if I was to get into another relationship, I still would have no clue as to how to properly broach the subject, and would wait for her to make the first move...
_________________
"Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps." -- Emo Philips
(1) Develop a mad crush on someone
(2) Be afraid to do anything about it
(3) Watch them get involved with somebody else, and feel really awful
(4) Kick yourself for letting your fear keep you in endless procrastination
(5) Go back to (1) and repeat
Yes, being rejected is extremely unpleasant, and will make your already low level of confidence even lower. But it's over with fairly quickly. The alternative is a trail of regrets which goes on forever.
You will probably clumsily botch things at first, but eventually you will do better. And the times when you don't get rejected will do wonders for your confidence.
Ahaha, that process has occurred twice on me in the past 2 years.
Now, i'm afraid of letting any chance slip away.
(1) Develop a mad crush on someone
(2) Be afraid to do anything about it
(3) Watch them get involved with somebody else, and feel really awful
(4) Kick yourself for letting your fear keep you in endless procrastination
(5) Go back to (1) and repeat
.
I've got this down pat. I'm not too pleased with
the results though. On the other hand, trying to
do something hasn't worked too well, either.
I feel pretty much the exact same way as you do. That's the hard thing about being a guy with AS.....girls expect YOU to make every move, but you don't know when and when not to.
I had the recent unpleasant experience of sitting through an entire film with a girl I had asked out feeling desparate to make a move but being virtually paralysed by the thought that I was unable to read her expressions and tell when/how to go about it. Afterwards she hit me with the 'just friends' dialogue and I knew I had blown it.
(1) Develop a mad crush on someone
(2) Be afraid to do anything about it
(3) Watch them get involved with somebody else, and feel really awful
(4) Kick yourself for letting your fear keep you in endless procrastination
(5) Go back to (1) and repeat
Yes, being rejected is extremely unpleasant, and will make your already low level of confidence even lower. But it's over with fairly quickly. The alternative is a trail of regrets which goes on forever.
You will probably clumsily botch things at first, but eventually you will do better. And the times when you don't get rejected will do wonders for your confidence.
I just found a major hole in this theory.
What if the person in question makes the first move?
Then it'll go a whole other way and actually 'destroy' the cycle.
It's so deeply ingrained into our culture that people think "be a man" qualifies as advice.
It's about as helpful as "be a theoretical physicist" would be to the average person.
Yeah. I just don't know, and feel like I can't take the risk, as I don't want to offend someone (or worse). My last girlfriend after we had been dating a few times had to ask me "can I kiss you?"

I have no clue how to ask someone out either. No clue how to tell if they're interested in me. Although I've dated a few times (and had one serious relationship), I've only actually asked one girl out (in high school) and was rejected...well, she never actually even SAID no, she just sort of said "um..." and ran off (but did at least continue talking to me :-/ ) Sooooo I've never actually tried again after that. Rejection completely hurts me, and I have no way of knowing. Plus no way of actually meeting anyone in real life anyway, since I don't do things normal people do to meet peoplt.
Well...I could be wrong, and don't really know what I'm talking about. But it seems like maybe she would have said that anyway, and you spared being rejected about that...but I could be totally wrong.
I feel your pain exactly! I've had a lot of impossible crushes in college and I've never been able to get past just being casual friends. Ironically, I was at a party the other night and a girl I've liked for years said "I love you" to me for giving her a shot of my rum (in a friendly, not a romantic tone). It was rather weird feeling especially since she is graduating and I may never see her again.
The thing that works for me (not very well, admittedly), is just experimenting with girl's boundaries. If you approach with a start of a hug does she go for it? Does she instigate any physical contact? (For instance, I was at a pool party at a professor's house floating face down and one of the girls there pushed me under more. I resurfaced figured out it was her, picked her up, and gave her a friendly dunk in return. Everybody Happy!). Another indicator I look for is whether or not a girl is willing to give you her undivided attention. If so, you may have a chance with something, friendship at the least.
_________________
~Michael
I assume AS makes it harder to tell, right?
I read this science fiction story years ago about a future society where everyone at a certain age gets scanned by a computer, and then the computer matches everyone to their best possible match, based on personality, interests, sexual compatibility, and of course sexual orientation.
Ever since then I've wished that's how it worked in real life! Who wouldn't want their perfect (or most perfect) possible match picked out for them?
madscientist
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 7 May 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 193
Location: Across the 8th Dimension...
This can be a real problem for Aspies. I'll give you an example from my life. The best relationship I ever had was with a highly intelligent, very attractive professional woman, highly successful. We had gone out, I simply couldn't believe my good fortune that she (who could have any guy she wanted) would be interested in ME. So, I wanted to be very careful not to spoil things by trying to make a move too soon and have her think all I was interested in was sex.
This almost backfired. We ended up sleeping together on the fifth date (the average, according to all the polls, is the third). She told me much later that by this point she had about decided that I didn't find her attractive since I hadn't made a move and wasn't reading all the signals she was sending. Her comment was "I MIGHT have done it on the first date, definitely would have on the second, actively wanted to on the third, was climbing the walls on the fourth. I had decided that I would make the move on the fifth date and if you didn't respond I was going to break it off, it was getting frustrating." Once she understood AS she was much more understanding - I found her insanely attractive but couldn't read the "signals". Fortunately, she was confident enough to come out in a very sexy negligee when we got back to her place after dinner on the fifth date, and I DID pick up on that.
But to this day, this remains a big problem for me.
_________________
Scientia est Potentia
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