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Frustration is not Entitlement

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nurseangela
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14 May 2017, 6:25 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
In my dates, like today, when I am asked about my previous relationships (they ALWAYS ask about them and talk about theirs), I just mention my ....short-term ones (which are the only ones I had), and I just say because I was never into LTR before and I am more into flings, I make it sounds because I am too of a free bird and thing like.

But honestly, this is a little....white lie in order not to sound weak or desperate, my ugly reality is, I always wanted a relationship for life but I simply never had a LTR and only had those short fling things at times; and the reactions I got to this is....much much better than the reactions, questions (questioning my worth) and puzzling faces I got in the past when i said the truth; and i think at my age they would be even more puzzled and suspicious.

But there's a side effect to this: they would probably never see me as LT material; even if they agree to sleep with me; but saying the truth got me nowhere either way.

So yeah, a forever involuntary single man is always seen in a negative light.


That's probably why you're only attracting short relationships, anyone wanting a LTR is going to avoid you like the plague or once they find out you are like that (even though you're not supposedly) drop you like a hot potato. Quit with the head games. It's a major turn-off.


angela, you are disregarding the part that I was used to say this truth before open, even for a far longer time than hiding it behind short-terms: it never worked! and it was even a more turn-off than anything else and wouldn't hear from her again afterward (except one who wanted a virgin man, but this one was too religious for me).

Typically when a woman has LT experiences before- she wouldn't want to be with a man involuntary with zero experience in it. And no, it's not about the sexual aspect of it - but because they think there's something seriously wrong in an adult man who's involuntary single till this age.


You're improving - you didn't call me "nurse". :mrgreen:
You're hanging around the wrong people. At least this website Eharmony thingy, they know I'm in it for a LTR. (Some serious relationship subjects are discussed before you even meet the person.) Most women don't usually just want flings unless they travel and move around a lot, I guess. You keep going out with those and that's what you're going to get.


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nurseangela
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14 May 2017, 6:31 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
In my dates, like today, when I am asked about my previous relationships (they ALWAYS ask about them and talk about theirs), I just mention my ....short-term ones (which are the only ones I had), and I just say because I was never into LTR before and I am more into flings, I make it sounds because I am too of a free bird and thing like.

But honestly, this is a little....white lie in order not to sound weak or desperate, my ugly reality is, I always wanted a relationship for life but I simply never had a LTR and only had those short fling things at times; and the reactions I got to this is....much much better than the reactions, questions (questioning my worth) and puzzling faces I got in the past when i said the truth; and i think at my age they would be even more puzzled and suspicious.

But there's a side effect to this: they would probably never see me as LT material; even if they agree to sleep with me; but saying the truth got me nowhere either way.

So yeah, a forever involuntary single man is always seen in a negative light.


So since you're still single, you would prefer women to think that you're a playboy? Ugh. I don't understand men at all. I'd rather have a guy who had one LTR than a bunch of flings.

I'm going to have a problem because I have never had a LTR. My longest was 2 months. Wonder what a future Hunny will think about that.


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ADHDuruss
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14 May 2017, 8:39 pm

I am one of those guys. I have had one longterm relationship, it lasted 11 years. Been out for 8 months now and what a messed up roller-coaster that has been. I don't want girls to think I am a player, I want them to treat me as an equal. I want to commit because all the energy, and communication needed to built a solid monogamous relationship is so very rewarding when you have mutual respect and equality.

That relationship is the only one I have ever had too.



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15 May 2017, 2:45 am

hurtloam wrote:
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it is just hard to understand why people are thinking you are entitled without any provided evidence as such. i want to believe you, especially because i agree that frustration and entitlement can be exclusive, and your OP does not reference any entitled ideas besides what other people have said about you.

They say it because that response is the zeitgeist. The unanimous decision on the internet is that any single man who dares complain about being single must be entitled, this attitude is read by millions and creeps into every day conversation.

Men in general aren't encouraged to complain. Don't you agree? I think this is an important part why male suicide rate is so high. Personally, I find it hard to tell my wife when I feel ill because I'm a man and I should never complain. It's the same when men complain online about dating.



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15 May 2017, 8:00 am

If anyone asks about previous relationships on a first date, why does anyone feel it necessary to say anything at all. Just simply state that you are single right here, right now and don't feel comfortable talking about it on a first date. I do know that one date was quite surprised when I eventually mention my lack of experience, she ignored me after that and I said to myself GOOD %$&U*(#% RIDDANCE!

My wife actually felt uncomfortable that I had been with others at all, even though my # is quite low. I got desperate to lose my virginity and regret it to this day as I almost ruined my life because of it. I do remember though how frustrated I was as a 29 year old virgin and people even here gave me a hard time about my negative attitudes towards women. My response then and now is "what attitude?". I just wanted a nice, normal woman who would accept me for who I am. Took many years but I found her. While it's easy to look back at my 28-29 year old self and tell him to relax, it simply wasn't that easy back then because I didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

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Men in general aren't encouraged to complain. Don't you agree? I think this is an important part why male suicide rate is so high.

I totally agree. I once complained about something similar to what a women did too (work related). The woman was given lots of support, validation, etc and I was told to quit being a whiner. Still gets me mad to this day the double standard.



314pe
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15 May 2017, 9:20 am

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
Quote:
Men in general aren't encouraged to complain. Don't you agree? I think this is an important part why male suicide rate is so high.

I totally agree. I once complained about something similar to what a women did too (work related). The woman was given lots of support, validation, etc and I was told to quit being a whiner. Still gets me mad to this day the double standard.

Yes, and when working as a team such behavior leads to inefficient work, because team mates don't communicate openly.



The_Face_of_Boo
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15 May 2017, 10:53 am

nurseangela wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
In my dates, like today, when I am asked about my previous relationships (they ALWAYS ask about them and talk about theirs), I just mention my ....short-term ones (which are the only ones I had), and I just say because I was never into LTR before and I am more into flings, I make it sounds because I am too of a free bird and thing like.

But honestly, this is a little....white lie in order not to sound weak or desperate, my ugly reality is, I always wanted a relationship for life but I simply never had a LTR and only had those short fling things at times; and the reactions I got to this is....much much better than the reactions, questions (questioning my worth) and puzzling faces I got in the past when i said the truth; and i think at my age they would be even more puzzled and suspicious.

But there's a side effect to this: they would probably never see me as LT material; even if they agree to sleep with me; but saying the truth got me nowhere either way.

So yeah, a forever involuntary single man is always seen in a negative light.


So since you're still single, you would prefer women to think that you're a playboy? Ugh. I don't understand men at all. I'd rather have a guy who had one LTR than a bunch of flings.

I'm going to have a problem because I have never had a LTR. My longest was 2 months. Wonder what a future Hunny will think about that.


To be thought as a Playboy is by FAR better than to be seen as a someone who never had a LT relationship.

Btw, some of these women wished to stay with me, but it couldn't work due to circumstances (usually....moving); so my "Playboy" past wasn't really a major turn off for those.



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15 May 2017, 1:23 pm

314pe wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
seaweed wrote:
it is just hard to understand why people are thinking you are entitled without any provided evidence as such. i want to believe you, especially because i agree that frustration and entitlement can be exclusive, and your OP does not reference any entitled ideas besides what other people have said about you.

They say it because that response is the zeitgeist. The unanimous decision on the internet is that any single man who dares complain about being single must be entitled, this attitude is read by millions and creeps into every day conversation.

Men in general aren't encouraged to complain. Don't you agree? I think this is an important part why male suicide rate is so high. Personally, I find it hard to tell my wife when I feel ill because I'm a man and I should never complain. It's the same when men complain online about dating.


Yes I agree. I feel really priviledged when a man opens up to me (not that it happens often) because I know it probably took a lot for him to say whatever it is he wanted to tell me.



The_Face_of_Boo
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15 May 2017, 2:53 pm

Women, there's also a "school of thought" among the manosphere(based on experience) that warn other men to open up to women; because later it gets used against them.

I personally experienced that; and I certainly can relate to this school of thought, - yes I may like to open up to a female friend about something, but so often if this opening up repeats more than once only they would be like "don't be a whiner" , sometimes they do it from the first attempt.

I have even witnessed this trend here on WP, if the OP is male and complaining about dating, users are by far more quickly to call him a whiner from both female and male members - if the OP is female, both would be nice to her, even if she admits of being abusive! (hint hint *wink).

And opening up weakness to lovers may backfire too.

Here are stories of men how their opening up to women backfired on them:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/com ... _struggle/

http://www.rsdnation.com/node/154277


Warning: some comments there are very bitter and sexist.

Quote:
]P4_Brotagonist 133 points 1 year ago
Couldn't agree more. When I was in an LTR about 10 years back, my best friend was killed in a car wreck. At that point I had been exclusive with this girl for about 6 months. I broke down crying about it finally one day out of nowhere. She asked what was wrong and I told her I finally was feeling something(I had never really felt that sense of loss and pain until that moment). A year later we broke up and she actually brought that s**t up about how she always knew I was weak because I cried over someone dying.



Quote:
Hard lesson learned. It goes against what you should be able to rely on a woman for, or could in decades past, but you're right:
Even with seemingly "good women", I will no longer take the risk. Once it happens, you're f****d, or at least left wondering what's going to happen down the road.
And yet I'll listen to other people's problems and withhold judgement pretty well, and always try (within reason) to give good advice and positive encouragement.
It's a really, really f****d up dynamic with today's women.


Quote:
[–]chrisindub 10 points 1 year ago
I agree
Don't ever let a woman see you vulnerable in any way.
Women will pretend like they are OK with vulnerability, but that's only because women don't even know what they want.
The second they see genuine vulnerability in you, they lose respect and will use that weakness to control you. Their attraction to you died that very moment.
I am a general surgeon, so I make decent money, do you know what en ex told me when she broke up with me in residency?
She saw that I owed a couple grand on a student loan and didn't like that I had outstanding debt.
I was literally two years away from making a few grand a day and she saw a small debt and it totally killed it for her. Don't ever tell a woman everything.
You can tell them 80% of what's going on, but never be completely honest.


Quote:
Not just LTRs either. Whenever I talk to my mom about my problems, she alsays chooses that moment to start nagging over some stupid s**t. Which of course makes things worse.
--> this was my experience with my mom too.

Quote:
[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns 6 points 1 year ago
THE EASIEST WAY TO TOSS A PLATE: just show a few seconds of vulnerability...
Had a plate a few months ago, beautiful woman, sex was great and she really had her s**t together too (career-wise, unlike a lot of the trashier women out here in LA) but, for whatever reason, I just wasn't feeling it with her (which of course only turned her on even more I'm sure), so I never upgraded her from plate status during the brief time we were together.
Few weeks in the girl starts getting on my case a bit--why don't we ever go out, do anything together etc (also, little arguments popping up here and there, and drama is something I NEVER tolerate in a plate, not for a second)--and I realize: I'm probably gonna have to cut her off soon. But then I think, well maybe I should just get her to walk away, and then all the work is done for me, no? And the easiest way to do that? Why, SHOW SOME VULNERABILITY OF COURSE (something she'd been on me about for a little while anyway, claiming she was into New Age-y sensitive men etc).
So I take her up on the challenge (knowing full well this is gonna be the death knell, which I'm totally fine with), and I say "Yeah, well, things have been kind of tough lately... I came out here to be a screenwriter, I spent years writing this big sci fi project, finally put it out there, I was so proud of it, so sure it would take the town by storm and now, turns out, it might not even get sold or optioned, let alone made... Hollywood has changed, no one is buying original material anymore and honestly, given the state of the market, I really don't know what I'm gonna do next..." etc etc. (All of which was true, but typically would be information I'd never share with a woman.) She takes all this in, says "Thank you for being vulnerable with me--I appreciate it." AND THEN VANISHES INTO THE NIGHT, AND I NEVER HEAR FROM HER EVER AGAIN.
Now granted this worked in my favor (as she was a plate I was gonna drop anyway) but I am SOOO very glad that I had the opportunity to try this little experiment and see the results firsthand. When women say they want vulnerability it's a s**t test gentlemen--NEVER, EVER SHOW WEAKNESS. Maybe years ago when women had fewer options you could get away with it every now and then but these days, when a new f**k buddy for them is just a single tap on the iPhone away, forget it, you'll be left behind, forgotten in a heartbeat.
permalinkembed



Quote:
–]mustard5 3 points 1 year ago
Opening up about my struggles at University to my first wife was the death knell of our marriage. She used to nag me all the time about 'no man is an island' and 'I wish you would share your problems with me'. I didn't like to share my problems. I figured I would get them sorted out. So one day I decide I'm going to go with this idea of vulnerability. I share my struggles with certain parts of the course at University. Straight away she turns around to me and says, 'I should have known I couldn't rely on you'.
f**k me. I learned my lesson that day.




Quote:
[–]Roshambo_USMC 5 points 1 year ago
This is definitely awalt. I was married to the most patriotic country girl. The moment I sought counseling and depression meds to curb my PTSD/depression and memories from overseas when I finally opened up, it was a game changer that ultimately snowballed the relationship to oblivion. There are no exceptions to this rule.
After she left and I took the pill and lifted myself up, by myself and close male family members, my life finally improved again. The night she abruptly left, my heavy drinking screeched to a halt, I threw out my several medications and haven't been this happy in a very long time. Not mentioning my past to plates keeps me at a high score that will only plummet if I ever bring it up again.
Again, there are no exceptions to this rule. It is relationship seppuku to even hint at any vulnerability to a female, regardless of circumstances. And yes, the most hateful s**t I ever heard in my life came out of her mouth when things were tanking. It truly is ammo you're handing her that she will pocket to only harm you with. She will use it beforehand while things are okay to curry favor/sympathy with other people in your circle, and act like she is bending over backwards dealing with you/trying to help you through it; the moment she's gotten that favor/sympathy she knows it has run its course and it only has one final purpose.


And no, this school of thought is not only Reddit.



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15 May 2017, 3:36 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
In my dates, like today, when I am asked about my previous relationships (they ALWAYS ask about them and talk about theirs), I just mention my ....short-term ones (which are the only ones I had), and I just say because I was never into LTR before and I am more into flings, I make it sounds because I am too of a free bird and thing like.

But honestly, this is a little....white lie in order not to sound weak or desperate, my ugly reality is, I always wanted a relationship for life but I simply never had a LTR and only had those short fling things at times; and the reactions I got to this is....much much better than the reactions, questions (questioning my worth) and puzzling faces I got in the past when i said the truth; and i think at my age they would be even more puzzled and suspicious.

But there's a side effect to this: they would probably never see me as LT material; even if they agree to sleep with me; but saying the truth got me nowhere either way.

So yeah, a forever involuntary single man is always seen in a negative light.


That's probably why you're only attracting short relationships, anyone wanting a LTR is going to avoid you like the plague or once they find out you are like that (even though you're not supposedly) drop you like a hot potato. Quit with the head games. It's a major turn-off.


angela, you are disregarding the part that I was used to say this truth before open, even for a far longer time than hiding it behind short-terms: it never worked! and it was even a more turn-off than anything else and wouldn't hear from her again afterward (except one who wanted a virgin man, but this one was too religious for me).

Typically when a woman has LT experiences before- she wouldn't want to be with a man involuntary with zero experience in it. And no, it's not about the sexual aspect of it - but because they think there's something seriously wrong in an adult man who's involuntary single till this age.


That's one of the reasons why if I get any whiff of LTR experience/"relationship savvy" from a woman, my first instinct is to run for the hills. In fact, the last woman I rejected was mostly because I suspected she'd already had a LTR.

There were other things too--looks-wise she wasn't really my type, and also she didn't seem to respond to childlike/teenlike flirting even though at the same time she gave strong signals of interest (pushing up against me while walking, holding hands etc. But the point is, a girl would have to be exceptionally attractive for me to overlook a previous LTR on her part.

It doesn't help that women also are dishonest about this sometimes--I guess it makes me over-emphasize an innocent vibe over what I would do otherwise. But it does tend to be something I feel I can "smell" like the whole was women who have been in serious relationships talk about dating, marriage, etc. tends to come across quite different from how a girl who has no experience with boys tends to talk about things.



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15 May 2017, 4:58 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I have even witnessed this trend here on WP, if the OP is male and complaining about dating, users are by far more quickly to call him a whiner from both female and male members - if the OP is female, both would be nice to her, even if she admits of being abusive! (hint hint *wink).


As opposed to when women whine about not being able to find love, and they're immediately attacked for being "too picky," or "not understanding men."

And then we're told that the reason more women don't complain online is because they "have it easy."

:roll:


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15 May 2017, 5:15 pm

I have two questions:

1. Is there a good way to determine whether to take something literally or to dismiss it as a white lie, in terms of rejection?

2. If someone rejects me based on things they merely assumed about me, or that weren't true, or based on bizarre ideas they have about relationships, and I dispute/debate it with them, does that automatically mean I have a sense of entitlement/can't handle rejection, or is the problem with the other person?


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15 May 2017, 6:48 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I have two questions:

1. Is there a good way to determine whether to take something literally or to dismiss it as a white lie, in terms of rejection?

2. If someone rejects me based on things they merely assumed about me, or that weren't true, or based on bizarre ideas they have about relationships, and I dispute/debate it with them, does that automatically mean I have a sense of entitlement/can't handle rejection, or is the problem with the other person?

They've rejected you,and if they've had to rationalise this decision to themselves with misinformation then why bother protesting? It won't exactly change their mind. Prove them wrong, let them change their opinion about you in their own time without coercion.


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16 May 2017, 6:35 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
2. If someone rejects me based on things they merely assumed about me, or that weren't true, or based on bizarre ideas they have about relationships, and I dispute/debate it with them, does that automatically mean I have a sense of entitlement/can't handle rejection, or is the problem with the other person?


I once dated a woman who flat out told me I acted just like her ex-Husband within 15 minutes of the first date. I protested that I am nothing like what she described but I was under no illusions she would change her mind. I just wanted her to know that she was being ridiculous and projecting negatives things onto me. I don't see that as having a sense of entitlement: I see it as defending my character from false accusations.



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16 May 2017, 1:28 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I have even witnessed this trend here on WP, if the OP is male and complaining about dating, users are by far more quickly to call him a whiner from both female and male members - if the OP is female, both would be nice to her, even if she admits of being abusive! (hint hint *wink).


As opposed to when women whine about not being able to find love, and they're immediately attacked for being "too picky," or "not understanding men."

And then we're told that the reason more women don't complain online is because they "have it easy."

:roll:


QFT



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16 May 2017, 5:40 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I have even witnessed this trend here on WP, if the OP is male and complaining about dating, users are by far more quickly to call him a whiner from both female and male members - if the OP is female, both would be nice to her, even if she admits of being abusive! (hint hint *wink).


As opposed to when women whine about not being able to find love, and they're immediately attacked for being "too picky," or "not understanding men."

And then we're told that the reason more women don't complain online is because they "have it easy."

:roll:


Well, to be frank, to this day there are still only two female WP members who are involuntary singles and never had a bf before - the vast majority of female singles here have admitted it is by their *own choice* in several occasions, and often have relationship experiences.

And no, I don't think slw and hurtloam are over-picky or non understanding of men, but the number of "involuntary single men with no previous relationship" vs "involuntary single women with no previous relationship" can be easily interpreted which gender has it harder generally dating wise.

Most members were nice to hurtloam and slw in their complaining threads; and certainly no woman called them a whiner or entitled.

But if a female member says she receive tons of messages from guys on several dating sites everyday (which is the typical case of a female on dating site) and been active on them for years; and been actively dating with many many guys for years out of these sites/apps, and yet she found no one good enough for her.... then yeah; of course I am gonna think she's picky. Everything indicates to pickness.

I mean come on, even the women who never used dating sites and found partners certainly never had that crazy numbers of suitors in their life.