Male disposability in life & dating
13 Oct 2017, 1:58 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Meh...I don’t really have a problem with being “disposable.” This life has done me few favors other than my wife and kids, who are all I’m really living for, anyway, and I kinda get excited over the idea of Death paying me a visit. No, I’m not in a HURRY to die, but I’m not exactly running from it, either.
Men are men. We don’t carry new human life inside us, we’re not exactly virtuous in all the best ways, we’re not very pretty. Our value is in what we DO, our ability to care for each other and those we love. Women’s value IS in their beauty—when a woman dies, the world loses some of its beauty. The nurturing attributes of mothers and big sisters. They get angry with us because we tend to want to fix things rather than validate, while women are often all validation. They just listen better than men do. I like how women are just naturally more creative and artistic than men tend to be, how there just seems to be more heart in what women do. How women really are smarter than men (think about it!).
I’m not a male feminist by any stretch, and I don’t care who thinks I objectify women. Women fascinate me. I think if one sex deserves more of the world it’s women.
Another way of looking at our disposability, a little less sentimental:
I really don’t care if someone thinks I’m disposable. I don’t want anyone to be that dependent on me. I don’t want to have to answer to anyone. If a girl can throw me away that easily, I don’t need her.
Men are men. We don’t carry new human life inside us, we’re not exactly virtuous in all the best ways, we’re not very pretty. Our value is in what we DO, our ability to care for each other and those we love. Women’s value IS in their beauty—when a woman dies, the world loses some of its beauty. The nurturing attributes of mothers and big sisters. They get angry with us because we tend to want to fix things rather than validate, while women are often all validation. They just listen better than men do. I like how women are just naturally more creative and artistic than men tend to be, how there just seems to be more heart in what women do. How women really are smarter than men (think about it!).
I’m not a male feminist by any stretch, and I don’t care who thinks I objectify women. Women fascinate me. I think if one sex deserves more of the world it’s women.
Another way of looking at our disposability, a little less sentimental:
I really don’t care if someone thinks I’m disposable. I don’t want anyone to be that dependent on me. I don’t want to have to answer to anyone. If a girl can throw me away that easily, I don’t need her.
You are a perfect example of how the unconscious programming manifests itself. Everything you've written here is just complete nonsense..
I guess you don't think Mozart, Shakespeare and Picasso were all that creative or artistic, or that Einstein, Tesla and Newton were all that smart.
I have no earthly idea how you have arrived at these conclusions, all the greatest things ever created throughout human history, have been creations of men. Why do show so little regard for your fellow men?
Men ARE smarter, more creative, more artistic than women, that's simply a fact. Many men have sacrificed their lives to save others, how dare you say men have less heart in what they do.
I guess in your view, spending time on taking instagram pictures, putting on makeup and going out shopping is the essence of virtue...
I've met plenty of men who were dumber and less creative than me.
Well, if I recall right, the male IQ bell curve is "flatter", meaning there are more male geniuses than females, but more male mentally challenged than females (probably due to conditions like Down Syndrome more common in males).
Just a funny historical fact, as you know midwifery was exclusively a female profession in the past (and still 99% dominated by females today) - women in this profession has kept used the same same same same things, when
William Smellie entered the profession as the first male midwife in Britain....and boom! He invented things! One of them was the forceps which saved many lives during labours.
My comment was more tongue-in-cheek than an actual attempt to start any kind of debate. I value precision in communication, so, generalizations tend to irk me.
As for the rest of it, 98% of our modern creature comforts are due to men, which is one of the things I tell autistic men who have trouble getting dates, and are down on themselves about, "What are men good for, anyway?"
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."
-XFG (no longer a moderator)
13 Oct 2017, 2:01 pm
OlivG wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
And women have, in fact, contributed to society in plenty of ways. As it stands, society doesn't place the same amount of value on women's roles as it does on men's roles.
Genius and innovation is both rare and useful and that why it is valued more: it is not disposable. Since people working in those roles tend to be overwhelmingly male, those roles and the men related to them are valued more, which is pretty understandable.
Women's roles are useful but common, just like is the case when a man is working an ordinary job that has to do with upkeeping rather than creating something innovative. People like those are disposable, because there are a ton of other individuals that can work on them even if someone stops.
So it's more accurate to say that most of the objectively most important invididuals have been men and then there is the larger lower caste of ordinary workers, consisting of the majority of men and the vast majority of women, each who are more or less disposable as individuals.
Raising children is quite important, and, without the care of women, the "genius" men would not have survived past infancy.
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."
-XFG (no longer a moderator)
13 Oct 2017, 2:14 pm
XFilesGeek wrote:
Raising children is quite important, and, without the care of women, the "genius" men would not have survived past infancy.
Yet there are so many women capable of raising children (most of them) that this makes that role naturally less valued than those positions that are not only useful as well, but can only be filled by very few.
13 Oct 2017, 2:33 pm
Closet Genious wrote:
Telling me that I'm angry is quite frankly unproductive, and doesn't add anything to the conversation.
Sorry, I practise naming emotions of me and others. Helps me with my alexithymia.
OlivG wrote:
Yet there are so many women capable of raising children (most of them) that this makes that role naturally less valued than those positions that are not only useful as well, but can only be filled by very few.
Not necessarily. I happen to do science and children at the same time.
If you f*ck up something with science, you don't become famous and someone else will do the discovery you would make.
If you f*ck up something with children, your children will have f*cked up lifes.
So I set my priorities... guess how.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
13 Oct 2017, 2:45 pm
OlivG wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Raising children is quite important, and, without the care of women, the "genius" men would not have survived past infancy.
Yet there are so many women capable of raising children (most of them) that this makes that role naturally less valued than those positions that are not only useful as well, but can only be filled by very few.
......which I find is an extremely creepy way to size people up.
Not to mention, most geniuses may be men, but most men are not geniuses.
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."
-XFG (no longer a moderator)
13 Oct 2017, 2:56 pm
XFilesGeek wrote:
Not to mention, most geniuses may be men, but most men are not geniuses.
I already implied that earlier. You seem to think that this is a sex issue instead of a neurological wiring issue. It doesn't make much sense to identify with a group just because you share genitals: if you have aspergers, the chances are that you exhibit more typically male thought patterns and abilities. You must accept your fate as a man with a vagina instead of constructing an imagined connection with neurotypical women that you probably hardly have anything in common with mentally.
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
13 Oct 2017, 5:23 pm
Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Outrider wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Meh...I don’t really have a problem with being “disposable.” This life has done me few favors other than my wife and kids, who are all I’m really living for, anyway, and I kinda get excited over the idea of Death paying me a visit. No, I’m not in a HURRY to die, but I’m not exactly running from it, either.
Men are men. We don’t carry new human life inside us, we’re not exactly virtuous in all the best ways, we’re not very pretty. Our value is in what we DO, our ability to care for each other and those we love. Women’s value IS in their beauty—when a woman dies, the world loses some of its beauty. The nurturing attributes of mothers and big sisters. They get angry with us because we tend to want to fix things rather than validate, while women are often all validation. They just listen better than men do. I like how women are just naturally more creative and artistic than men tend to be, how there just seems to be more heart in what women do. How women really are smarter than men (think about it!).
I’m not a male feminist by any stretch, and I don’t care who thinks I objectify women. Women fascinate me. I think if one sex deserves more of the world it’s women.
Another way of looking at our disposability, a little less sentimental:
I really don’t care if someone thinks I’m disposable. I don’t want anyone to be that dependent on me. I don’t want to have to answer to anyone. If a girl can throw me away that easily, I don’t need her.
Men are men. We don’t carry new human life inside us, we’re not exactly virtuous in all the best ways, we’re not very pretty. Our value is in what we DO, our ability to care for each other and those we love. Women’s value IS in their beauty—when a woman dies, the world loses some of its beauty. The nurturing attributes of mothers and big sisters. They get angry with us because we tend to want to fix things rather than validate, while women are often all validation. They just listen better than men do. I like how women are just naturally more creative and artistic than men tend to be, how there just seems to be more heart in what women do. How women really are smarter than men (think about it!).
I’m not a male feminist by any stretch, and I don’t care who thinks I objectify women. Women fascinate me. I think if one sex deserves more of the world it’s women.
Another way of looking at our disposability, a little less sentimental:
I really don’t care if someone thinks I’m disposable. I don’t want anyone to be that dependent on me. I don’t want to have to answer to anyone. If a girl can throw me away that easily, I don’t need her.
You are a perfect example of how the unconscious programming manifests itself. Everything you've written here is just complete nonsense..
I guess you don't think Mozart, Shakespeare and Picasso were all that creative or artistic, or that Einstein, Tesla and Newton were all that smart.
I have no earthly idea how you have arrived at these conclusions, all the greatest things ever created throughout human history, have been creations of men. Why do show so little regard for your fellow men?
Men ARE smarter, more creative, more artistic than women, that's simply a fact. Many men have sacrificed their lives to save others, how dare you say men have less heart in what they do.
I guess in your view, spending time on taking instagram pictures, putting on makeup and going out shopping is the essence of virtue...
I've met plenty of men who were dumber and less creative than me.
But almost every.notable philosopher, scientist, doctor, engineer, inventor, mathematician, designer, etc. In history were men.
Average man and woman have equal.IQs but men simply it out more geniuses.
And don't try to argue "women were oppressed they couldn't become scientists or doctors" thats changed today and there's still not many amazing female scientists, inve tors, philosopher etc.
All i can think of is a woman is leading in robotic sciences, who's name I can't remember.
And Ayn Rand, one of the most well known female philosophers/political critiques published her works long before feminism gave women the opportunity to start being top scientists, inventors, philosophers, etc.
All major innovations in human histpry have been by Men.
What Closet Genius failed to mention is men are also ultimately the force of war and violence in The world, but I don't see our violent nature as a problem and it does have some benefits. It was natural since our ancestors fought with other tribes and hunted animals so.men degepopes more tendencies toward violence. Violence when used to protect and defend is not wrong.
I didn't say most major scientific advances hadn't been by men.
They have. But most serial killers, child molestors, rapists, violent thugs, war criminals, ect. have also been men, so it tends to even out.
And women have, in fact, contributed to society in plenty of ways. As it stands, society doesn't place the same amount of value on women's roles as it does on men's roles.
XFiles: excellent points.
Again, I’ll gladly wear the badge of anti-Feminist, anytime. This is NOT about hating men. It’s about keeping mens’ practical roles in perspective.
Ever wonder WHY the performing arts are so male-dominated? Why there aren’t more Clara Shumanns or Hildegardes of Bingen, or, heck, Ellen Taafe Zwillichs out there? PART of it is that the historical tradition or convention is that it’s wrong for women to outshine their husbands. It’s a good thing we don’t live that way now because everyone in my house would have starved to death by now.
I’ve asked women this question. You know what they said to me? They asked me WHY they’d ever want to. They don’t have time for that. They’re too busy practicing vocal music and techniques, or doing Hanon exercises on the piano, or giving lectures and recitals, or doing something that actually gets them PAID. They don’t CARE.
And if they don’t care, they are traitors to the cause of women. But if they make the effort, they “sound too much like men.” They’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
But...
Traditional folk arts and crafts DO tend to be dominated by women. Screw the “dead European man” music. I’d rather listen to a woman with a decent voice and a guitar and her own songs ANY day.
And SERIOUSLY...
That “dead white man” music—how many portraits of womanly virtue are there within that body of work? Seems to me every single one. More or less. The beautiful, the bitchy, the innocent, the temperamental, the harpy and the saint, the heroine, the victim, the goddess, the femme fatale... ALL THERE. Those musical worms are enduring monuments in honor of the women who inspired their creation. Why aren’t the greatest works by women? Dude...women ARE the work. Women are poetry in motion. Women are music, light, and dance. Women are passion, anger, fire, cold, peace, tranquility. Just because a woman wasn’t the one who scribbled her name to it doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve the credit for it.
It's all preference, I'd say most male singer songwriters are vastly more talented, both technically and creatively, they also tend to be alot more original. Women tend to just copy great men.
Dude... You can't just take credit away from the artist and give it to the inspiration. Are all of taylor swifts songs not her songs then because she wrote them about her boyfriends, so her boyfriends ARE the work? C'mon now that's just stupid. Making art is work, it doesn't just come out of thin air. There's also a vast amount of music that has nothing to do with women, or men for that matter, but about other aspects of life.
There’s a vast amount of music out there that sucks, too.
It’s just I reserve my judgment calls for my own private thoughts and opinions and try to encourage people to keep doing great things.
It’s not so much that songs belong to their inspiration. It’s just that there’s a lot there to credit women with.
When a girl is in a coffee shop with her guitar singing her heart out for tips, it’s art for the love of art. When a man sings to a sold out stadium, it’s BUSINESS. I’m not saying either is superior to the other or that the man’s music is necessarily less authentic than hers. They each serve different purposes, so in a sense it’s apples to oranges. I’m just saying that there is a purity there with the coffee bar girl singing for extra rent money than a guy out for glory.
Besides that, male stars represent a fantasy ideal for women. Boy bands and Bieber types are in the BUSINESS of appealing to women. They see their future boyfriends and husbands in them, whereas regular-Joe men want to BE those boyfriends and husbands.
Women commercial artists? COMPLETELY different. They don’t NEED men to be successful, or at least that’s their narrative. So they don’t go out of their way to appeal to men. Yeah, they sing the same love songs, but the songs are not what men want to hear. The songs are what women want to say to the objects of their affection. Everything is geared towards identifying with women and empowering THEM. Commercial female lyrics usually carry the themes of dominating men or female superiority. It wasn’t always like that, but it’s just the culture. The focus is predominantly on women.
That doesn’t make women’s art less successful in terms of artistic merit. It just means that it has a one-sided target, hence you’re going to see less success defined by commercial performance.
Copying great men? You READ my post, right? I think you proved my point. I’ll say it again: if a woman doesn’t create, she’s a traitor to the cause of women; if she DOES create, it sounds like she’s trying to be a man. I don’t like feminism very much, but that attitude is too sexist even for ME. Explain, exactly what it is women are SUPPOSED to do?
Some composers/performance artists to consider: Zwillich, Tower, Oliveros, Spiegel, Anderson, Cianni. That’s a diverse group ranging from more conventional modern classical to New Age to electronic pioneers to avant-garde. All heavy hitters in their musical areas. True story, I happened to be in the same audience in Second Life with Pauline Oliveros. She had a male avatar, I recall. VERY influential lady in contemporary music. Highly respected. So I think underrating women artists solely on the basis that there happens to be more men flooding the arts than women is a bit unreasonable.
Or maybe stop wasting money going to overpriced concerts and leave coffee bar girl bigger tips instead.
13 Oct 2017, 5:54 pm
AngelRho wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Outrider wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Meh...I don’t really have a problem with being “disposable.” This life has done me few favors other than my wife and kids, who are all I’m really living for, anyway, and I kinda get excited over the idea of Death paying me a visit. No, I’m not in a HURRY to die, but I’m not exactly running from it, either.
Men are men. We don’t carry new human life inside us, we’re not exactly virtuous in all the best ways, we’re not very pretty. Our value is in what we DO, our ability to care for each other and those we love. Women’s value IS in their beauty—when a woman dies, the world loses some of its beauty. The nurturing attributes of mothers and big sisters. They get angry with us because we tend to want to fix things rather than validate, while women are often all validation. They just listen better than men do. I like how women are just naturally more creative and artistic than men tend to be, how there just seems to be more heart in what women do. How women really are smarter than men (think about it!).
I’m not a male feminist by any stretch, and I don’t care who thinks I objectify women. Women fascinate me. I think if one sex deserves more of the world it’s women.
Another way of looking at our disposability, a little less sentimental:
I really don’t care if someone thinks I’m disposable. I don’t want anyone to be that dependent on me. I don’t want to have to answer to anyone. If a girl can throw me away that easily, I don’t need her.
Men are men. We don’t carry new human life inside us, we’re not exactly virtuous in all the best ways, we’re not very pretty. Our value is in what we DO, our ability to care for each other and those we love. Women’s value IS in their beauty—when a woman dies, the world loses some of its beauty. The nurturing attributes of mothers and big sisters. They get angry with us because we tend to want to fix things rather than validate, while women are often all validation. They just listen better than men do. I like how women are just naturally more creative and artistic than men tend to be, how there just seems to be more heart in what women do. How women really are smarter than men (think about it!).
I’m not a male feminist by any stretch, and I don’t care who thinks I objectify women. Women fascinate me. I think if one sex deserves more of the world it’s women.
Another way of looking at our disposability, a little less sentimental:
I really don’t care if someone thinks I’m disposable. I don’t want anyone to be that dependent on me. I don’t want to have to answer to anyone. If a girl can throw me away that easily, I don’t need her.
You are a perfect example of how the unconscious programming manifests itself. Everything you've written here is just complete nonsense..
I guess you don't think Mozart, Shakespeare and Picasso were all that creative or artistic, or that Einstein, Tesla and Newton were all that smart.
I have no earthly idea how you have arrived at these conclusions, all the greatest things ever created throughout human history, have been creations of men. Why do show so little regard for your fellow men?
Men ARE smarter, more creative, more artistic than women, that's simply a fact. Many men have sacrificed their lives to save others, how dare you say men have less heart in what they do.
I guess in your view, spending time on taking instagram pictures, putting on makeup and going out shopping is the essence of virtue...
I've met plenty of men who were dumber and less creative than me.
But almost every.notable philosopher, scientist, doctor, engineer, inventor, mathematician, designer, etc. In history were men.
Average man and woman have equal.IQs but men simply it out more geniuses.
And don't try to argue "women were oppressed they couldn't become scientists or doctors" thats changed today and there's still not many amazing female scientists, inve tors, philosopher etc.
All i can think of is a woman is leading in robotic sciences, who's name I can't remember.
And Ayn Rand, one of the most well known female philosophers/political critiques published her works long before feminism gave women the opportunity to start being top scientists, inventors, philosophers, etc.
All major innovations in human histpry have been by Men.
What Closet Genius failed to mention is men are also ultimately the force of war and violence in The world, but I don't see our violent nature as a problem and it does have some benefits. It was natural since our ancestors fought with other tribes and hunted animals so.men degepopes more tendencies toward violence. Violence when used to protect and defend is not wrong.
I didn't say most major scientific advances hadn't been by men.
They have. But most serial killers, child molestors, rapists, violent thugs, war criminals, ect. have also been men, so it tends to even out.
And women have, in fact, contributed to society in plenty of ways. As it stands, society doesn't place the same amount of value on women's roles as it does on men's roles.
XFiles: excellent points.
Again, I’ll gladly wear the badge of anti-Feminist, anytime. This is NOT about hating men. It’s about keeping mens’ practical roles in perspective.
Ever wonder WHY the performing arts are so male-dominated? Why there aren’t more Clara Shumanns or Hildegardes of Bingen, or, heck, Ellen Taafe Zwillichs out there? PART of it is that the historical tradition or convention is that it’s wrong for women to outshine their husbands. It’s a good thing we don’t live that way now because everyone in my house would have starved to death by now.
I’ve asked women this question. You know what they said to me? They asked me WHY they’d ever want to. They don’t have time for that. They’re too busy practicing vocal music and techniques, or doing Hanon exercises on the piano, or giving lectures and recitals, or doing something that actually gets them PAID. They don’t CARE.
And if they don’t care, they are traitors to the cause of women. But if they make the effort, they “sound too much like men.” They’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
But...
Traditional folk arts and crafts DO tend to be dominated by women. Screw the “dead European man” music. I’d rather listen to a woman with a decent voice and a guitar and her own songs ANY day.
And SERIOUSLY...
That “dead white man” music—how many portraits of womanly virtue are there within that body of work? Seems to me every single one. More or less. The beautiful, the bitchy, the innocent, the temperamental, the harpy and the saint, the heroine, the victim, the goddess, the femme fatale... ALL THERE. Those musical worms are enduring monuments in honor of the women who inspired their creation. Why aren’t the greatest works by women? Dude...women ARE the work. Women are poetry in motion. Women are music, light, and dance. Women are passion, anger, fire, cold, peace, tranquility. Just because a woman wasn’t the one who scribbled her name to it doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve the credit for it.
It's all preference, I'd say most male singer songwriters are vastly more talented, both technically and creatively, they also tend to be alot more original. Women tend to just copy great men.
Dude... You can't just take credit away from the artist and give it to the inspiration. Are all of taylor swifts songs not her songs then because she wrote them about her boyfriends, so her boyfriends ARE the work? C'mon now that's just stupid. Making art is work, it doesn't just come out of thin air. There's also a vast amount of music that has nothing to do with women, or men for that matter, but about other aspects of life.
There’s a vast amount of music out there that sucks, too.
It’s just I reserve my judgment calls for my own private thoughts and opinions and try to encourage people to keep doing great things.
It’s not so much that songs belong to their inspiration. It’s just that there’s a lot there to credit women with.
When a girl is in a coffee shop with her guitar singing her heart out for tips, it’s art for the love of art. When a man sings to a sold out stadium, it’s BUSINESS. I’m not saying either is superior to the other or that the man’s music is necessarily less authentic than hers. They each serve different purposes, so in a sense it’s apples to oranges. I’m just saying that there is a purity there with the coffee bar girl singing for extra rent money than a guy out for glory.
Besides that, male stars represent a fantasy ideal for women. Boy bands and Bieber types are in the BUSINESS of appealing to women. They see their future boyfriends and husbands in them, whereas regular-Joe men want to BE those boyfriends and husbands.
Women commercial artists? COMPLETELY different. They don’t NEED men to be successful, or at least that’s their narrative. So they don’t go out of their way to appeal to men. Yeah, they sing the same love songs, but the songs are not what men want to hear. The songs are what women want to say to the objects of their affection. Everything is geared towards identifying with women and empowering THEM. Commercial female lyrics usually carry the themes of dominating men or female superiority. It wasn’t always like that, but it’s just the culture. The focus is predominantly on women.
That doesn’t make women’s art less successful in terms of artistic merit. It just means that it has a one-sided target, hence you’re going to see less success defined by commercial performance.
Copying great men? You READ my post, right? I think you proved my point. I’ll say it again: if a woman doesn’t create, she’s a traitor to the cause of women; if she DOES create, it sounds like she’s trying to be a man. I don’t like feminism very much, but that attitude is too sexist even for ME. Explain, exactly what it is women are SUPPOSED to do?
Some composers/performance artists to consider: Zwillich, Tower, Oliveros, Spiegel, Anderson, Cianni. That’s a diverse group ranging from more conventional modern classical to New Age to electronic pioneers to avant-garde. All heavy hitters in their musical areas. True story, I happened to be in the same audience in Second Life with Pauline Oliveros. She had a male avatar, I recall. VERY influential lady in contemporary music. Highly respected. So I think underrating women artists solely on the basis that there happens to be more men flooding the arts than women is a bit unreasonable.
Or maybe stop wasting money going to overpriced concerts and leave coffee bar girl bigger tips instead.
I've played music since I was a child, I started writing songs because I was depressed, most male musicians I know are the exact same. And I'm willing to bet my left arm I've known way more musicians in my life than you ever will. Alot of men truly write with their hearts.
Women copy men, because pretty much EVERY single genre and style is invented by a man. Even every musical scale is invented by a man. Women only do stuff that men have already done, they barely bring anything new to the table.
I seriously refuse believe that you are not a woman.
The_Face_of_Boo
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AngelRho
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Age: 47
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Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
13 Oct 2017, 6:14 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
lol no he is not, just a man with a wife over his shoulder. *gulp*
Please understand!
Please understand!
Irrelevant. But LOL.
I love it. I idealize women, therefore that makes me a woman. Absolutely ASTOUNDING logic. But logic was never why I chose to post in L&D.
And the young guy is trying to start a pissing contest over how many musicians we know. Priceless.
13 Oct 2017, 6:53 pm
AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
lol no he is not, just a man with a wife over his shoulder. *gulp*
Please understand!
Please understand!
Irrelevant. But LOL.
I love it. I idealize women, therefore that makes me a woman. Absolutely ASTOUNDING logic. But logic was never why I chose to post in L&D.
And the young guy is trying to start a pissing contest over how many musicians we know. Priceless.
Well, if Pauline Oliveros pretends to be a man, why can't you?
You're definitely right about you idealizing women, actually from my perspective you seem completely out of touch with reality.
Call it a pissing contest if you want mate, I am a person who has been consumed by music since childhood, whether it be playing, composing, producing, mixing or listening. I come from a family of musicians, and all my friends are musicians. I know what I hear, when I hear it. And I know that the ones who really push music, whether it be sonically, melodically, creatively or technically are men. I also sensed some subtle musical snobbery coming from you, and I honestly have no patience for that.
14 Oct 2017, 12:28 am
I generally prefer male singers, I like the timbre of their voices, and I can say without a doubt that you can't write off male musicians as just about business and not the purity of lyrics.
Men write all sorts of beautiful and heartfelt songs.
So do women. But I'm less keen on the sound of their voices.
I don't think either sex is more passionate, creative or better at music.
However, the assumption that women haven't created any new styles and genres is plain blinded to history. Google sister Rosetta Thorpe.
14 Oct 2017, 12:48 am
The point about women's jobs not being valued as much. They're not, until they start making a lot of money; that's when men get interested and take over.
In the early days of computing programming was considered women's work.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/computer-programming-used-to-be-womens-work-718061/
So was script writing until they got too successful at that and men wanted a piece of the pie.
14 Oct 2017, 1:14 am
I do see that young men are viewed as cannon fodder. I was struck by this in high school when we learned about the world wars.
Wilfred Owen's anthem for doomed youth
Quote:
What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?
Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
Can patter out their hasty orisons.
No mockeries now for them; no prayers nor bells;
Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs,—
The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;
And bugles calling for them from sad shires.
What candles may be held to speed them all?
Not in the hands of boys, but in their eyes
Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.
The pallor of girls' brows shall be their pall;
Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,
And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds.
Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
Can patter out their hasty orisons.
No mockeries now for them; no prayers nor bells;
Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs,—
The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;
And bugles calling for them from sad shires.
What candles may be held to speed them all?
Not in the hands of boys, but in their eyes
Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.
The pallor of girls' brows shall be their pall;
Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,
And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds.
Last edited by hurtloam on 14 Oct 2017, 2:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 43
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,452
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
14 Oct 2017, 1:51 am
hurtloam wrote:
The point about women's jobs not being valued as much. They're not, until they start making a lot of money; that's when men get interested and take over.
In the early days of computing programming was considered women's work.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/computer-programming-used-to-be-womens-work-718061/
So was script writing until they got too successful at that and men wanted a piece of the pie.
In the early days of computing programming was considered women's work.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/computer-programming-used-to-be-womens-work-718061/
So was script writing until they got too successful at that and men wanted a piece of the pie.
Read on the inventor of COBOL; it's a programming language still used in banks to this day.
But the article itself is a stupid conspiracy theory as if all what men do is to gather in dark rooms and conspire how to
make women less successful - "adding math to programming to make it difficult on women" .... wtf? Do you seriously believe that?
Programming does require math especially in the old days when there were no concept of libraries and frameworks, everything had to be created from scratch.
It's just excuses really.
14 Oct 2017, 2:46 am
Oh yeah maths skills are needed. I did maths module as part of my programming qualification. We couldn't move on to the next year of the course if we didn't pass the maths module.
I'll do more research into what kind of maths the article is talking about. It does seem a wild claim when maths skills are needed.
The personality test thing is a bit off though. You could possibly tailor the required results away from things women might say. I'll need to look into that too.
You can't deny there have been men's cliques that don't really want women intertwined into their space. They'd rather not have women around.
Look at Muirfield Golf Club in Edinburgh. They were determined to keep women out. They caved this year. Women can now be members.
I'll see if I can find some adverts from the time that put down female programmers in favour of males.
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