Married to suspected Aspie: at a crossroads

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I think that this is an issue of the two different cultures fundamentally Until the training of therapists and counsellors gets real about this, and stops thinking along the lines of one size fits all, then the only option is to seek out those who have an accurate knowledge of AS (not the myths and stigmas picked up along the way that many seem to mistake as knowledge). They exist, though they are extremely rare. There are almost none like the one I linked before and Tony Attwood. There are a lot who are ignorant but think they know, and they are probably the most dangerous to AS people.

I think that AS people owe Attwood a lot. He cut through the dehumanising myths and has spent decades on his educational work. Unfortunately, it is mainly only AS people who are listening to him. It's the NT culture that needs to start listening, learning, and realising that they are part of the problem, that the solution is not for us to fit their pattern of functioning. Attwood has done a wonderful job in his effort to bridge this divide, though if NTs aren't ready to listen and learn, then solutions are a long way off. I am hopeful though, because when there's a will, the way forward can happen, and I think it will, though not in my lifetime.

Cross cultural communication is ineffective as long as people misunderstand and talk past one another. That's where the counselling thing is at now. It's like buying a lotto ticket - you might get a counsellor who is a prize, by chance, but more will be unaware of what their gap in knowledge does to a minority culture, and AS is in essence a minority which is analogous to another culture. We don't speak a different language, we speak the same language differently; we see patterns and we prefer literal concrete statements, not psychological theory developed and normed on NT samples; we have research findings that are about NTs applied to us as if we were - or should be - the same. That's as nonsensical as doing research on giraffes and applying them to deer.

I applaud NTs who are prepared to take the arduous journey of learning and cutting through the crap. They are the kind that I am happy to see on WP, (like this OP). Without real knowledge, what NTs see is what they are exposed to, and that viewpoint is always a clouded one. They can't count on the media for genuine information nor their own tribe.

OP: There is a book called "Neurotribes". It may be an interesting read for you and your husband (possibly).

Indeed. I adore Tony Attwood.

I've done some research projects through my university which I directed towards ASD. There is a particular researcher, Simon Baron-Cohen from Cambridge, who has perpetuated this myth that people with ASD lack empathy. He based this off the notion that people with ASD struggle to read cues in the eyes, facial expressions, microexpressions etc.

What's really harmful about this is that it has filtered through into this pop culture idea of what ASD is. And it could hardly be more backwards. He fails to clarify in most of his research that this doesn't apply to everyone with ASD (he makes it seem universal), and what it means to "lack empathy" by way of limited understanding of interpersonal/social cues.

The reality is, yes, some people do struggle to read facial/body language cues. But the evidence leans more towards suggesting that they are either misinterpreting them, or not consciously acknowledging them because of other information that the person is directing their attention to (linked to sensory issues and fixations, perhaps). And this is only one aspect of empathy, cognitive empathy, picking up those cues and inferring things about the other person's mental/emotional state. It says nothing of whether a person could infer mental/emotional states if they were given an adequate amount of information on their terms

It also says nothing of affective empathy, which is feeling what the other person feels. And people with ASD are often highly compassionate, love animals, good with younger kids etc. They may not always immediately pick up on the mental/emotional states due to (stealing this term) 'cultural differences'. But once they do understand another's emotional state, they empathise and take it on board.

Some aspects ASD can make expressing those feelings more difficult, but it doesn't mean that those feelings aren't there.

A person with ASD who seems aloof, unemotional, insensitive or unsympathetic, usually either has too little or too much information to contend with. Not too little empathy.

Getting accurate scientific information about ASD is hard enough, when things like this filter through to the media and public sphere...harmful and stigmatising.

https://intersectionalneurodiversity.wo ... autistics/

I love this article I found floating around in the autistic community

Over my years on Wrong Planet, I have read many threads from some members who appear to be very definitively aspie, who have been told ridiculous things by NT psychologists, who showed them no empathy whatsoever. Theory of Mind works two ways. NT failures of empathy are also (sometimes) manifest in NTs (some, not all) who come here to patronise and insult AS people for not being more like NTs. (Present OP excluded). Epic theory of mind fails.

My point is that TOM only becomes a "symptom" when applied to AS people, a classic class of othering. Ever been given a gift by an NT giver that was totally inappropriate for your obvious preferences? Something they think is appropriate because they like it? In my extended family, the best gift givers are the aspies. They are good observers, and put themselves in my place as a recipient. Some NT gifts have been shockers, though occasionally one hits the mark.

So in a nutshell, it's a two way street, not a one way street. But TOM is really another discussion, and there are lots of previous threads that have comprehensively covered Baron-Cohen and the various critiques of his shonky methodology.