Help, Marriage Ending

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OP, you'd mentioned even if your wife isn't into the idea of counseling that you're considering going for yourself. Go for it. Do you have an Autism Society in your state where you could get an assessment? It might take a month or two to get an appointment, but that would help either confirm your suspicion (or not) and either way could help you figure out which direction to go.

Your wife might feel better knowing that you'd go to counseling for yourself since she thinks the problem is one sided (you).

I think you have a reasonable agreement so I don't see why you would want to pursue anything beyond that. Since it was her idea to divorce, and she doesn't appear to have changed her mind, I'd leave it at that. Also, she will need to meet you half the way if you should decide to get together again, and simply blaming everything on you will not cut the deal at all.

Still, I'd just give it time and see how it develops.

Who is the "Other Man"?

This is tough. I'm anti-divorce in the extreme. People make promises. They should 1) know what their vows mean AND KEEP THEM, and 2) they should know the person they're with enough to accept what they're getting into. I think if more people were honest with themselves, FEWER people would be getting married. It's not easy when you look at what it costs in the long term--not just in finances, but in mental and emotional currency as well. But people who have a thorough, HONEST understanding of themselves and each other can keep it together. If you think this is all about "feely-good in-love" emotions, you're setting yourself up for disaster. Love is about ACTION. It's what you DO. If you are incapable of DOING, you are incapable of love. You won't make it long-term. But if you can wake up every morning and make the CHOICE that you will DO something to care for your spouse and emotions have little to do with it, you really shouldn't have much to worry about.

This is complicated and hard to advise on because of mistakes that have been made that you're already aware of. So let's get the obvious out of the way: begin now with a commitment to stop making those mistakes and correct the unwanted behavior. Getting counseling is an excellent first step. If you've been contentious in the past, now is the time to stop. You know what needs to be fixed. Now fix it. It seems your parents have played a significant role in all of this. As cold as this might sound, I say it's time to look at your parents in terms of how they've acted to support and strengthen your marriage. Instead, they've driven a wedge between the two of you. Whether it's your fault for tolerating it is beside the point (yeah, that was not a good move on your part). The fact is that they are causing problems. They don't want what's best for you. Cut them out of your life. I know...flesh and blood, but you gotta ghost 'em if you want this to work.

On a side note, and on a personal note: This one girl I'm ALWAYS talking about on here I almost married--she absolutely refused to see anything good at all in my mom. I could see what was coming from miles away. So I set up a date between her and my mom where my mom would take her shopping. All my fiancee could talk about was how my mom always picked out the ugliest things for her, that my mom was pretentious, snobby, etc., and just hated her. At that point I began asking "Who hates who here?" Huge red flag. I began SERIOUSLY rethinking my relationship with her then and broke up with her not too long after that. I also knew my mom better than that. And if my mom had been the source of problems for us, I'd have ghosted my own mom over it. As it happened, it was my now-ex that was the source of most of my problems. Getting out before the wedding day was the best decision I've ever made.

The next thing I think you need to do is take steps to protect yourself. It always seems there's a steady progression to the dissolution of a marriage. You're somewhere between loudly arguing and tearing each other down or you've become cold and distant, or at least one of you has--that's typically how it starts. Often the wife will bring up marriage counseling. I see this as a trap. If that had happened to you, I'd strongly advise you agree ONLY if you get to pick the counselor you see. If she's genuinely interested in reconciliation, she'll have no problem with this. If not, she'll insist on picking someone she feels sure will side with her. Once a third party lays all the fault and blame at your feet, there's really no recovering, which is precisely what your wife wants to have happen. Somewhere in all this is a separation. The only thing that really accomplishes is giving the spouse space and time to begin laying groundwork for divorce proceedings. And then there's the divorce itself.

So...let's assume that yours is a worst-case scenario. First, remember EVERYTHING I've said up to this point. You recognize that you have problems and you're working on fixing that. You're committed to never being "that guy" again. You WANT to reconcile with your wife; you don't want to divorce.

I look at it as a matter of justice. You made certain promises. She's wanting to break her end of the deal. She shouldn't get a free pass to destroy your life. You must DEMAND that she doesn't. You need to fight the divorce with everything you have. If she wants to leave, she'll figure out a way to leave and you won't be able to stop the divorce from happening. But you CAN do a few things along the way to hold her accountable. Remember, you LOVE HER. You're not out to punish her. You just want to save the marriage. This must always be at the forefront of your thoughts when you decide it's time to play dirty.

You ABSOLUTELY CANNOT EVER be expected to sign your name on the blueback IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO. They will try every trick in the book and many more that aren't. They will resort to threats, blackmail, harassment, visits from law enforcement, private investigators following your every move, etc., etc. All they're trying to do is get you to sign your name on the line agreeing to a no fault divorce settlement. They will do everything they can to wear you down psychologically. It's just "Jedi mind tricks." Don't fall for them.

Your lawyer likely won't be much help, either. Remind him he works for YOU, not her. You tell him you want to keep the marriage intact and for him to do his job. Lawyers can bury estranged spouses in so much paper it will take decades to dig themselves out. There are stall tactics out the wazoo, verbally saying you'll agree to something by a certain deadline and then pulling out at the last minute, forcing her to start all over again. They're gonna try to wear you down...but you have absolutely EVERY RIGHT to do the same to them. Don't be the one to blink.

I hate divorce. Did I mention that? And I've seen some doozies.

My wife worked this one divorce case where the wife was the plaintiff going up against a husband who worked in law enforcement. She said he was a real piece of work, too, and I believe her. When her lawyer asked her if there was ANYTHING he needed to know about, and extramarital junk, etc., ANYTHING, and said that we needed to know about it NOW, she said everything was clean. As this ordeal dragged on, it got out that she was seeing another guy, but nothing was going on. As it turned out, the husband hired a private investigator to follow her around. He documented several instances where she'd gone to her bf's house, photos of which ended up with her lawyer. Her lawyer wasn't all that competent to begin with, I might add. So when it came time to testify in court, HIS lawyer grilled her on the bf and she confessed IN FRONT OF THE JUDGE that she'd had sex with this guy and her child was in the room when it happened!! !

She lost EVERYTHING in her case, and pretty much any hope of ever seeing her child again along with that.

Why am I telling you this? Well...bear in mind this girl wasn't very smart. She was probably on drugs along with all the other drama going on. But the point I really want to drive home her is everyone has limits as to what they can take. It's commonplace these days in dating and relationships once one relationship ends, there's another guy waiting in the wings. Or another girl...doesn't matter, men and women do this. So as soon as the relationship is over, you can go running to whoever you've been keeping on the sideline. Drag divorce proceedings out long enough and I can almost guarantee at some point one of you will end up involved with someone else. It's just so hard to legitimately keep your nose clean that long. So what you do is hire a PI to follow her every move. The instant she's been alone with another man at her place or his place, you're gonna know and you'll have evidence. You've caught her committing adultery, and it doesn't matter when she filed for divorce. The divorce isn't final. She's going to drop the ball. Watch her like a hawk, collect evidence, and jump on it as soon as you get something.

She has two options: Forget this other guy and fooling around and come back to you, or proceed with a contested divorce for grounds with YOU as the plaintiff. You can wipe her out and leave her penniless on the street; you'll get primary custody of any children if not sole custody, and any money she makes from a job pretty much has to come right back to YOU. You can absolutely RUIN someone in divorce if you stay awake and keep your eyes open long enough.

Depending on the jurisdiction, you might be able to file a civil suit against the guy she's cheating on you with. In Mississippi, this is called "Loss of Affection," as an example. Not every court system has this as an option, but the long/short of it is that if a guy is sleeping with a married woman, he's responsible for his part in her betraying her spouse. Fines for that can get pretty hefty. One way of looking at it is if he wants her that bad, he can pay for her. If a woman can be bought, traded openly like chattel, what does that say in terms of what she's really worth? She's basically a prostitute. If that's the road she want to travel down, expose her for what she is for all the world to see.

One last time--you LOVE her. You DO NOT WANT a divorce. You DO NOT WANT to punish her or embarrass her. You DO want to save your marriage. YOU aren't the bad guy here. You've GOT to convince everyone who knows you, either of you, that this is your position on the matter, and that you're just doing what it takes to save the marriage. SHE's the one giving up and ruining everything, but SHE can fix this by giving you an honest chance. If she's cheating on you, it's up to you whether you can forgive her. If that's the case, you have every right to WIPE HER OUT. You're not obligated to ruin her--you simply have that option and that leverage. You MIGHT get her back. But if the cheating continues, take her to the cleaners and make it HURT. Don't hold back. Do everything you legally CAN. If the divorce is going to move ahead and you've done everything you can and you're out of options, do everything you can to make sure you leave nothing left alive in your wake. It's not about destroying her out of revenge. It's all about making sure YOU are protected and YOUR rights respected.

You're not obligated to take my advice, of course. My views aren't exactly popular these days. And, of course, there's always the old cliche "If you love something, set it free.." I call shens on that. That's just something people say to stupid people to get their way. When it comes to bf/gf relationships, setting something free is something you do because you, um...really have no choice in the matter. Bf/gf's can come and go at will almost. But when you talk about marriage, much more is at stake. I think it's worth fighting for. I think NFD/ID filings are a crock. "No-fault"? REALLY? There's always someone at fault. Don't tell me your differences really are irreconcilable. That just tells me you didn't try very hard. And, too, often women will offer a NFD/ID because they want out of the marriage fast. What you DON'T see is how she has evidence that her husband has been cheating. Their lawyers go together over coffee or a beer, discussed the case, and decided that one could blackmail the other and get this over with. NFD is just a way for a cheating man to get out of a divorce unscathed while the wife gets to do whatever she wants. It's just a way to avoid public embarrassment or loss of reputation. That's all it really is. So when you get right down to it, there's always something ugly going on in the background that you'll never hear about. Lawyers use these tactics to settle cases quickly and collect high fees.

It should never come to that. If there's a legit problem, she can file for divorce, the court's on her side, and you don't have a leg to stand on. If you're "just going through some stuff..." sorry, that just doesn't cut it. Grownups work through their problems. They fix things. Getting a divorce over a rough year is just asinine. Yet this happens way too much, and divorce is just too easy and convenient. If she wants to leave you, if she wants to go to war, then give her the war she wants. Trap her in a protracted war of attrition--NOBODY wins these. Give her all kinds of hell, stall tactics, etc., hire a qualified professional to stalk her.

I'm hoping this never becomes a reality for you. I'm not telling you this is what you have to do right now. Sounds to me like it's a bit early to worry about that just yet. I'm just saying IF IT SHOULD COME TO THAT, the absolutely worst case scenario, this is what you need to be prepared for. So hopefully that's been a LITTLE bit of a help. Keep us posted on how things are going.

AngelRho put into a long post everything that was behind mine -- "Who is the other man?"

I ask this question not to be snarky, but because in about 4 out of every 5 divorces I've known about (and I personally know one or both parties in over 20 divorces), where the woman filed for the divorce, where there was no overt claim of abuse, and where "irreconcilable difference" were cited as the reason for the divorce, the woman had acquired a boyfriend before filing or re-united with a boyfriend she had before she got married.

About 1 out of every 5 was because she had found a girlfriend before filing for divorce. Only 1 divorce out of 20+ was because the woman had never really "found herself" before marriage.

Again -- and let me emphasize this -- these were divorces where the woman filed and that that were not over official issues of abuse or abandonment, only "irreconcilable differences", and nothing more.

Everything AngelRho wrote sounds absolutely loco to me.

He gives a prescription for a highly adversarial divorce, which will tear up the family and prevent any chance of the parents behaving amicably in the future. This can only spell trauma for those four children.

OP I'm sorry about your predicament. Be decent. You might have to suffer and be sad for a long while. But your children will always be yours. Make sure you only agree to shared custody.

I absolutely would not cut off your parents. If you end up with no marriage and no parents and no kids, who are you going to spend Thanksgiving and Christmas with? Besides, if you cut off your parents and your ex doesn't like them, your children will be deprived of one whole set of grandparents.

The truth is, people with autism CAN be really sh***y spouses, and for that matter, not the best parents either. They can also, however, learn to change these facts. I recommend you work on yourself and always be respectful and decent to the mother of your children.

If she has taken a lover, that's irrelevant. She's still the mother of your children, and you need to support her in that role or you will only be hurting your kids.

It's just something I'm passionate about, plus I had some time to kill.

I don't like jumping to the assumption that's the case. But if that IS the case, I wouldn't let it go. Get an investigator and get to the bottom of it. If it's cheating and you decide you can't stay with her after that, throw the damn book at her. Take her to the cleaners. Don't settle for a NFD.

My wife and I are both former paralegals. We've talked through some of these scenarios and it's freakin' depressing. When things got rough between us at one point, she'd considered divorce. But she knew that I was aware of all the same tricks and that I wouldn't fall for it. However, our issues were somewhere between a hideous financial situation and extremely negative outside influences/hanging out with the wrong friends. We were fortunate enough to work through it all and we're a lot stronger. It's nothing that most couples don't face at some point. For us, it's about remembering the vows we took to each other and meaning every word we said to each other, not to mention all of our history before that.

The problem of getting a divorce is it's too much like committing suicide. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. When you divorce your spouse, you escape your problems by getting rid of a person who holds a mirror up to you. You don't see that you're the one with the problem. You simply see the problem and assume it's the other person. When you imagine you could be happier with someone else and you don't change anything, the problems you had with your ex will just follow you to your next relationship. When you hit a rough spot, if you can tough it out for another 5 years, most likely you're going to be just fine for the long haul.

I feel that adultery is really the only "legit" cause for divorce. I agree with Fnord. Take the initiative and see if you can puzzle out what's REALLY going on.

IF it has to come to that. The focus is on saving the marriage, which I believe is best for everyone.

I understand few people actually value marriage much these days. Divorce is seen as routine and normal. I see divorce as harmful and dangerous. People get married for a reason. They'd do well to remember that, and the "trauma" to the children would be a moot point.

However, if a spouse behaves harmfully towards the other, I believe the victim deserves justice. I like seeing justice being served.

If, and I stress IF I'd done nothing wrong and she left me, I'd feel I'd been done a great injustice. I'd feel that I'd been hurt, and deliberately so. I'd want SOME kind of attempt on the wrongdoer or the justice system to begin making this right. The intentions of one filing NFD/ID are never good. As the songwriter once put it, "We don't need no water, let the motherf@¢k3r BURN!" You are under no obligation whatsoever to let anyone roll you, and that includes divorce.


I see meddling parents as abusers. My wife has always looked after my interests and has been no less than wonderful to me. My mom has always turned her nose up at the girls I brought home. I've largely understood exactly why. But if my mom turned out to be a meddler and made problems for us, I'd move us as far away from my parents as I could.

My wife's grandmother, on the other hand, was INTENSE in her meddling. She made life hell for both her daughters, both of whom died at a tragically early age. She despised her son-in-law, who in my opinion was one of the most positive male role models I've ever had in my life. We'd go visit the old bat when we could just to be nice, but she was difficult to be around since the whole universe revolved around her. My wife eventually distanced herself from her grandmother and was much happier. In fact, the day we got married it was the matron of honor's job to make sure her grandmother stayed as far away from her as possible.


On this I completely agree. When it comes to respect, the only problem I could have with this is...

...this. If she's a cheater, that's tantamount to spousal abuse. Not in a physical sense, but it's a horrible thing to do to someone. Marriage ties your hands in a manner of speaking; that is, you agree in working towards a common cause. Your bf/gf has no such obligation to you, and so I think of marriage as really living out what you already kinda do. It's a formality of sealing that in a legal action which, I think, is what really makes divorce so devastating. It's crazy-harmful, and I don't believe that someone who wishes to do me harm is worthy of respect. At all. And certainly not deserving of spending time with her children. You absolutely must not allow her to get away with it. Stick it to her. I wouldn't hide it from the kids, either. They don't have to know all the details, but they can understand that "mommy has made a bad choice." You can tell them it's not their fault and they're not being punished for anything. Two grownups are just having a hard time right now, we all make mistakes sometimes, we work it out the best we can, and sometimes it doesn't work out the way we know it should.

People seeking a divorce are mostly only seeking what's good for them and have little or no regard for what their children want. I'm not gonna lie...I'm inclined as of late to live for myself and no one else. But that also means that I see the best for my wife as ultimately what's best for me. I see my children as extensions of myself; what works out best for them benefits me as well. When people seek a divorce, they're basically saying, "I don't give a rat's @$$ what's best for you or for our kids. I want the freedom to do what I want, and what I want doesn't include you. And if it hurts you or the kids...oh well."

If you're foolish enough to agree to a NFD, or she's got some leverage on you that forces you to sign a NFD, like if you're abusive in some form or another, then I totally agree you have to act respectfully towards your ex and expect same from your kids. But divorce these days is more of a weapon than anything else. If they're trying to hurt you and you're forced to protect yourself by fighting it, hurt 'em. Hurt 'em BAD. If enough men and women start taking these things seriously and really stick it to people treating them unfairly, they'll see divorce isn't worth it and they'll work harder to work things out together. Even better: fewer people will get married when they don't mean it and they won't have kids who have to deal with stupid parents.

Almost as usual, I disagree with much of AngelRho's advice.

Unless somebody is a complete assh*ole, which I don't think is the case here, it's never a good idea to fight legal battles like this. If she wants out of the marriage, let her get out. You cannot stop this process by harassing her with legal suits. This kind of behavior is pretty likely to add permanent damage & hatred between them that cannot be undone, and it will be bad for the children if their parents hate each other.

I also find it a pretty bad idea to spy on her. Sure, she has broken her wedding vows if she has somebody at the side, but knowing this won't help in saving the marriage. It's more likely the opposite that it would be better for him not to know.

I expect my views on divorce to be unpopular. Standing on principle frequently is, however. We don’t live in a time in which people hold each other accountable. When someone has honestly been wronged, they deserve justice. Divorce exists because husbands are prone to making marriage unliveable, or because wives cheat and force men to raise kids that aren’t theirs. It doesn’t exist because people grow old and senile, or because they suddenly develop cancer, or because they lose their jobs, or because one yelled at the other that ONE time. But that’s precisely how casual we are about marriage.

I happen to take it more seriously than anything else in life.

The problem with your reasoning here is that if she’s determined to get a divorce, it’s gonna happen one way or the other. She’s not the victim here. He is. He should protect himself. If she’s doing him harm by leaving, it really doesn’t matter if the divorce is ugly or not. If he still believes in the marriage, he should fight for it. By drawing out the process, there’s at least a chance he can convince her to change her mind. He isn’t obligated to agree to it. If I were him, I wouldn’t sign my name to ANYTHING. If I couldn’t sue her for adultery, I’d sue her for abandonment.

And heck yeah I’d spy on her. It’s not so much that I’m trying to harrass her as it is I’m looking out for myself. I should point out that I’m suggesting nothing that’s illegal. There are proper procedures for doing this, and you have to obey the law.

Also keep in mind I’m under the assumption he hasn’t already given her cause for divorce. He’s already explained where’s he’s grossly erred, and I worry that’s just the tip of the iceberg. A man who’s done everything right shouldn’t have to worry about divorce; however, things happen despite our best efforts. Assuming he has a leg to stand on, I think he should battle this one out. Take the kids away, too.

She’s been freakishly mean about it, too. She’s kicked him out of his own place, right? Or no? The least she could have done is made him sleep on the couch or something. Or SHE could have taken the couch, or SHE could have moved out if she felt that strongly about it. I mean...because HE has to leave every night, it makes it look like he’s leaving her. He shouldn’t put up with it.

People should love themselves more than this.

I don't think you can force another person to love you. Your method looks a lot like blackmailing (or stalking) and seems pretty abusive to me.

I don't believe that the "exclusive talk" or "marriage" is anything special. It's just words, and a game aimed at relatives and friends.

The next time you give this kind of advice, pretend that instead of a relationship you are dealing with dating instead. Would you tell somebody that got ghosted that he should hire PIs to investigate a woman's whereabouts? Would you try to create lawsuits against her to make her change her mind? It is called stalking and it is no more legitime for a husband with a wife that wants a divorce than for a guy that got ghosted after a few dates.

Still, I agree that divorce is too common, and people give up too easily. Both in dating, relationships, and marriage. That doesn't change the fact that you cannot force somebody to love you.

Maybe for some people they think they've fallen out of love because they don't have the same sort of feeling they had in the early stages of the relationship. It does change, you're very lucky if you have the same spark that was there in the first place, 10 years or so later. The compulsion might be there to feel that initial spark again with somebody else, but you're more than likely going to end up in the same place before long.

My ex-wife is now on medication for depression/anxiety, struggling financially and according to my daughter still wallowing in self-centered delusions of martyrdom that she did before she left us. But what can you do? They'll find out for themselves eventually that you always come back down to yourself and those same feelings of disconnection, but unfortunately when there's children involved, young lives can be traumatized in that process.

"In Love" is hormonal. Of course people will "fall" in and out of love, often with the same person many times over, because a person's mood will influence how much they are "in love" with someone else.

The marriage contract is in place for those times when you "fall out of love" with the person you're married to -- it's a reminder that you can't just walk away from a relationship because you no longer feel "in love" with them.

Which may explain why men seem more interested in "living together" than women seem to be.

A crush, infatuation and in love are temporary (hormonal), but they help to build a strong attachment (love). You cannot build an LTR based on infatuation, but it is not much better to build it on only words and commitment either. What stops most people from breaking up is not words, but a strong connection. If all you have is just a commitment, you can just cancel it and walk away. A marriage contract is just words, and you cancel it with a divorce.

Putting a murderer in prison looks a lot like kidnapping and seems pretty abusive to me.


Not the same thing. One is legally recognized and comes with protections for those involved; the other does not. My wife's ex-bf did that to her (stalking, harassment). She called the cops on him. They arrested him. She couldn't prove stalking, but she could prove the rest of it. He got off on a misdemeanor, a slap on the wrist, and a fine, but we were fortunate that was enough to send an effective message. He left her alone after that.

Marriage carries certain expectations among the couple, society, and the law. The legal sanction of marriage protects the couple from certain kinds of abuses, criminalizing certain kinds of behavior and offering civil restitution for others. If you don't stand up for what's right, you weaken the institution. You get more people making examples out of each other and others will think twice before making heinous choices. Tolerating NFD is like saying murderers are all misunderstood people who are merely misguided and can't be blamed for destroying lives. Get them some counseling, but don't kill them or lock them up. Don't punish them at all. That hurts the legal institution and deprives victims of justice. NFD has a similar role.

People do separate amicably all the time, and I don't understand why. I mean, I understand why they separate. I DON'T understand why these people end up married in the first place. I think if the institution of marriage really is that irrelevant for most people, I think we should just stop calling it marriage. It's something else. "Marriage" should be reserved for something else, what it was intended to be, and consequences of breaking it maybe could be more severe. What we actually practice with divorce being so common...call it something else, I dunno. And if you're open to polyamorous relationships and feel the need to celebrate or make it legally binding in some way, well, do that. It's just modern-day plural marriage. Back in the straight-and-narrow 1950's Cleaver kind of existence, reality was that successful men had mistresses all the time and for "well-bred" women this wasn't a big secret. But it did give them a certain amount of leverage in the relationship. Divorces back then WERE ugly, public affairs, and rightly so. I see no reason for that to have ever changed. They were easier then than they had been before , and they're easier now than they were in the 50's. I think that's wrong. If that's the arrangement you're going for, don't make "forever" kinds of vows, and call it something else that reflects more what it is.


It's not about forcing someone to love you. Love is a choice, I think. I don't always love my wife in the things that I do, but I make a point of doing things as acts of love every chance I get. I don't have to. She can't force me to. Either I want to/can do, or I don't/can't.

Dating, though, IS casual and informal. There's nothing legally binding about dating. There aren't any consequences, hurt feelings aside, from a breakup. You just move on and live your life. With divorce, it's "who gets the kids this weekend, who gets the TV (joint assets)," etc. Between my wife and I and all the divorce cases we've worked, it's just crazy how petty people can be. If judges and law enforcement didn't get involved, if there weren't lawyers and signed agreements, if there weren't temporary restraining orders and so forth, most if not all of your possessions are like to go up literally in flames if you're not careful. It would be BETTER if you just date, keep your own place separate from her, let gifts be gifts you don't take back, and if you MUST spend the night you leave behind nothing more than cheap personal grooming items, 3 changes of clothes and extra underwear, and pj's--nothing of great value, nothing you'd miss if you had to cut and run.

With dating, you SHOULD feel the luxury of just giving up and running should the need arise. I think of it like my music students. I have a kid playing saxophone and another playing trumpet. I firmly believe that if students don't pick up the technique quickly, they should switch to a different instrument within three weeks of playing. You match them with their aptitudes and physical ability to play. I'm not giving a cleft lip kid a brass instrument or a flute. I don't care if I'm crushing your hopes and dreams, but NO. If you have a physical condition that impedes the use of your hands and can't even properly execute a snare drum role, you're lucky if I give you a triangle. If you slobber so much spit runs all the way down the clarinet and the reed won't budge, you're not playing any kind of wind instrument. If you can't perceive pitch OR rhythm, can't physically perform on ANY instrument, you don't belong in my class. It's nothing personal. It's not that a disabled person doesn't deserve what I have to offer. It's just that being in my class isn't what will best serve their needs. I've had kids on the spectrum, I've had kids with all sorts of various physical conditions or defects that interfered with their playing. I've made all sorts of accommodations, and for the MOST part I've felt good about the decisions I've made and the success of the student. But someone who lacks the aptitude, or who is destructive, or who physically CANNOT PLAY, or has cognitive deficits that make learning an instrument more challenging that it's worth--that is the kind of person who can't get anything out of my class but frustration. And yes, I've actively worked to have severely disturbed kids removed from my class so they can be somewhere that they'll be adequately supervised and get the kind of help they need. That has to be an exceptionally disabled or disturbed child, and my worst nightmare has been that ONE parent with the mistaken notion that her kid can somehow magically defy the odds and be a superstar. I've dealt with that, had the child removed--and after I got canned from that job, the next BD after me had to deal with the same headache (the music program at that school is failing, incidentally, all due to administrative meddling and entitled parents/students. I'm preparing to make a bid to buy up all their equipment when they fold).

Sometimes you just have to be honest with yourself and admit you're not cut out for it.

And that's exactly what I'm saying about dating. Not that you're not cut out to be with any woman any more than not being cut out for instrumental music makes you worthless. There are other activities you're better suited to. So it's more like you're not cut out to be with THAT woman, whatever THAT means. I purposefully steer students away from playing percussion precisely because the vast majority of young students lack the mental discipline and self-control to study percussion; but playing wind instruments demands more concentration and forces students to control and discipline themselves. Likewise, it's important to approach dating with a touch of selectivity--girls that are into you. High society, Hollywood, and supermodel types aren't necessarily off the menu, so to speak, but you can't handle their lifestyle, especially if you've never had a gf before. Ask that one girl down the street, or that one girl in Sunday school at church, or the girl in the choir, or the girl at the community theater or...any girl you're comfortable with and find accessible. There's no REAL limit, but your choices should at least be reasonable. And when you are in a relationship with someone and that person doesn't meet your expectations, you ARE entitled to run at the first sign of trouble, and you SHOULD. You have no right to expect someone to change just for you. You are entitled to be yourself and resist changing for anyone for any reason. If no one can accept you as you are, then you're better off single than being forced to settle for anything less than what you deserve. If you feel you'd get along with someone if she'd only just ______, then you should break up with her. Because she's not going to change just because you marry her. And you're not going to change just because you get married. If it's a problem now, accept that it will always BE a problem and end the relationship. You CAN give up at this point and it's in your best interest that you do. If a girl breaks up with you, well...you don't have any real choices that you CAN make. She's gone, and she's taken everything you had together with her.

The kicker is that you should be GLAD she's gone. Breaking up with you is a good thing for YOU. Yes, it's disappointing and heartbreaking. There's no question about that. But once the dust settles and that relationship is deep in the grave, you should be glad that it's over. You no longer have to worry about her wasting her time when she had no long-term intentions with you...or perhaps it was her intentions changed over time as she got to know you. Be glad. Learn the warning signs and get a jump on her if you can. I find that emotionally gratifying, btw. She's about to dump me and I figure it out, so I steal the initiative, leave her first, and leave her wondering what it was SHE did wrong. That's always a smart move if you can manage it.

Marriage is a whole other beast. Marriage is the ACCEPTANCE of all these things and a contract, a covenant, a promise, and a vow that NO MATTER WHAT you're in this together. You don't get to break the deal. You don't get to change things. You don't get to abandon your spouse. You don't get to lie, cheat, and steal your way all the way to the grave with that person. You put a ring on it, it's yours, and you're stuck with it, for better or for worse.

And with that comes a whole slough of "big rocks" that you've tackled together. Joint bank accounts. Joint property. Children. Diseases. Or, the lowest of the low--crippling age-related disability or illness. The emotional and mental trauma is bad enough, but then you have REAL issues like the ones I just laid out. I can eventually get over a lost gf. Dealing with financial ruin or being abandoned in the hour of my greatest need isn't something I signed up for by marrying a woman. Yes, I'm owed justice. I've been harmed, and I expect appropriate restitution. I've been abused, manipulated, cheated on, abandoned, and not due to something that I caused. I didn't do this. SHE did. And she's not going to get away with it. No man or woman should EVER get away with it.

I don't care what it does to anybody else. If she's leaving me, I'm not going to be happy either way. But to say to a victim of a cheater, or of abandonment, or financial abuse, or domestic violence that "if you love ____, don't you want ____ to be happy?" What crap! Did anyone ask about MY happiness? Did anyone ask about MY well-being? Am I not a person, too? The one thing that's the most eff-ed up about all of this is the implication that the happiness of the person abandoning the other is more important than the happiness and well-being of the victim. That is no way to treat a person. That is not compassion. That is not mercy. That is not justice.

For anyone out there reading this, burn these words into your heart and mind and never forget: You ARE worth something. Don't allow anyone to convince you otherwise, especially not that somehow your feelings and your well-being are less than that of anyone else. That's nothing but pure brainwashing designed to make you believe you're doing yourself and someone a favor when you're doing yourself the greatest harm. If you have any leg to stand on at all in a divorce case--and let me know if I need to be more clear on what I mean by that--give the spouse who would abandon you for no good reason all kinds of holy HELL until either she realizes marriage is worth saving or until she (OR HE, don't misunderstand me) makes an unforgivable mistake. They WILL make a mistake. They almost always do, else why are they trying to get a divorce in the first place? Make it clear what it will take for you to take her back. Make it clear that you are willing to work WITH her to restore your marriage, that you'll do whatever it takes and threats of divorce aren't necessary to move forward. Above all, make it CLEAR that your love for her is your primary motivation, that your marriage is of the utmost importance and worth saving. You do NOT wish for her to suffer. Make that very clear. Make her understand that you aren't seeking her suffering and her unhappiness, but that you feel you are being threatened and you are only seeking the justice and relief that you're entitled to by law, nothing more, and nothing less.

If you value marriage so little that you CAN NFD-it and be done, I've got nothing to say to you. You didn't intend to keep any vows you might have made. You didn't have much of a marriage if you CAN so easily split it all up, wrapped up so nice and neatly, and make a quiet exit. You had nothing at stake. Nothing to lose nor gain. I wonder why you got married in the first place. For those of you who don't give a crap about yourselves or each other, my advice is not for you. For those of you who are getting served NFD/ID papers because you got caught cheating, or lying about credit cards, or hiding a mental problem you knew about before you got married, or you promised your spouse you'd have sex with her and make babies when you've always been asexual (not judging, btw) or never wanted kids and LIED about it, or because you disagree on religion (and always have), or because you side with your parents instead of supporting your spouse, or you beat/threaten your spouse, or you've behaved in any such way as to give him or her reasonable grounds for dissolving the marriage, MY ADVICE IS NOT FOR YOU. If your spouse is so foolish as to deny himself or herself justice and let you quietly walk away, you best take the deal and pretend none of it ever happened. But for everyone else who has been wronged by a marriage partner, don't let them get away with it. Move heaven and earth (figuratively speaking, and LEGALLY) if you must to get justice, compassion, and mercy for yourself. Hold nothing (legally) back. Let him or her expose himself or herself for the rot he/she is, and let society see his or her scum and avoid his or her stench. I'm asking for nothing less than what people deserve, and I believe mistreatment demands justice. You owe yourself this much if the unthinkable were to ever happen.

[/rant]

I don't like the idea that you would first be dating somebody, and assume it could end at any time, and then you marry and suddenly you are obligated to stay. I wonder if anybody is cut out for this. First, I would never agree to marry anybody that I knew could leave me at any time as I don't trust the institution of marriage that much. I'd rather assume that if somebody is constantly deciding to leave, it will never be something long-term regardless of marriage. Which means I require a potential wife to decide to stay with me long before I would even consider marriage. It's the same thing with solving conflicts and adapting to being together. If there is constant fighting and conflicts are not resolved during dating, then I would assume this would continue if we marry. If we cannot find common interests and adapt to each other while dating, it's unlikely we could as spouses. So, this hardly is different during dating and marriage either. Such advice is just indicative of people having too little persistence when they date. Another thing is that if you select a "perfect" match during dating, you might not have any conflicts or issues with adapting and so everything looks fine, but people change so the conflicts and problems with compromising will instead come when they are married, potentially leading to divorce. That's why "the perfect match" seems like a bad idea. At least when it comes to interests and cultural values.

When it comes to leaving a marriage "just like that", that would assume people marry without attachment, which is a very bad idea. I wouldn't consider marriage unless there is a strong connection, and that means people cannot leave "just like that". However, a strong connection builds up gradually and not when you get married, which means you need to be open to the possibility of forming a strong connection even when there is no guarantee that it will lead to marriage.