Why do others tell me I am wrong about “bad boys”?

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lostonearth35
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19 Feb 2020, 9:07 pm

If women won't date you because you're a "good guy", maybe you're not as good as you think you are.



Marknis
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19 Feb 2020, 9:31 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
If women won't date you because you're a "good guy", maybe you're not as good as you think you are.


I never once considered myself a “good guy”. I’ve only considered myself as someone who doesn’t fit in and for some reason I get the “incel” tag despite how I am nothing like the incel culture. I am non-religious and I was bullied by mostly straight men. I think you have some misconceptions about me.



nick007
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19 Feb 2020, 10:09 pm

Brehus wrote:
My Aspie girl is the way a women should be can't stand bad boys has a heart of gold. Loyal to a fault and she is proud of me when I act like a good guy and help people. If you ask me many NT girls are the one messed up in the head.
My girlfriend is also on the spectrum & is the same way. Sure she has some issues that can really get on my nerves sometimes but her good qualities make up for it & I have more than my fair share of issues too so we can relate to each other better than anyone else can.


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Tiana101
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19 Feb 2020, 11:00 pm

Women want what other women want. Women see that other women want some man, and so they will want him as well.

I think that others are telling you this to be nice and make you feel better. Some I think might even tell you this so that they don’t have to compete with you, hoping that you don’t do anything about your situation.



The_Face_of_Boo
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21 Feb 2020, 11:14 am

Marknis wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
If women won't date you because you're a "good guy", maybe you're not as good as you think you are.


I never once considered myself a “good guy”. I’ve only considered myself as someone who doesn’t fit in and for some reason I get the “incel” tag despite how I am nothing like the incel culture. I am non-religious and I was bullied by mostly straight men. I think you have some misconceptions about me.


She simply hates men.



Teach51
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21 Feb 2020, 12:50 pm

Tiana101 wrote:
Women want what other women want. Women see that other women want some man, and so they will want him as well.

I think that others are telling you this to be nice and make you feel better. Some I think might even tell you this so that they don’t have to compete with you, hoping that you don’t do anything about your situation.



Women want what other women want? :D
Not the women I know, myself included. There you go again Tiana101 misrepresenting all that is female.


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Karamazov
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21 Feb 2020, 12:57 pm

I thought girls/women chasing ‘bad boys’ was a sign of either immaturity or underlying psychological issues... am I wrong?



BenderRodriguez
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21 Feb 2020, 1:00 pm

Karamazov wrote:
I thought girls/women chasing ‘bad boys’ was a sign of either immaturity or underlying psychological issues... am I wrong?

You're not wrong.


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Karamazov
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21 Feb 2020, 1:10 pm

^ Excellent, would be worrying to know I was off the mark there.



BenderRodriguez
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21 Feb 2020, 1:37 pm

There are a couple of people around (not Mark) who seem to be convinced that all (or most) women only care about nasty men or/and the size of their wallet and claim that anybody who disagrees with them is either lying or deluded. With some, it's obviously confirmation bias while others seem to be stuck in very bad places.

I've met plenty of immature or materialistic women, not to mention plain nasty ones, but I had no particular trouble meeting ones who weren't. Granted, I was never very interested in "mainstream" people and always looked for strong, interesting minds and individualities who march to their own drum, and these ones usually look for similarly-minded partners who are not afraid to go against the grain. They aren't the majority but there's plenty of them around, particularly in metropolitan areas.

I've lived in a couple of places that put a huge accent on conformity and most locals seem very ignorant and... let's say unpleasant. I think the OP would hugely benefit from a change of scenery if that's the case.


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Karamazov
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21 Feb 2020, 2:17 pm

^good advice there.
A period spent in a large melting-pot urban area can be very beneficial, and lead to a variety of confidence building experiences through association with all sorts of not-on-the-beaten-path folks.



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21 Feb 2020, 2:30 pm

Maybe what they are trying to tell you is that women aren't interested in "fake bad boys." Trying to act like a "bad boy" for girls isn't going to work. Many Aspie guys aren't good at masking in ordinary social situations. In a romantic situation you are going to be observed very closely.



quite an extreme
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24 Feb 2020, 7:36 am

Teach51 wrote:
Tiana101 wrote:
Women want what other women want. Women see that other women want some man, and so they will want him as well.

I think that others are telling you this to be nice and make you feel better. Some I think might even tell you this so that they don’t have to compete with you, hoping that you don’t do anything about your situation.

Women want what other women want? :D
Not the women I know, myself included. There you go again Tiana101 misrepresenting all that is female.


She isn't wrong and quite young. Many young girls are uncertain which guys are nice. They tend to trust the decision of other girls about a guy in first step then. If I had my wife around women were a different way and more open to flirt with me. But NT women also care about how other men treat you.


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techstepgenr8tion
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24 Feb 2020, 7:53 am

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
One thing I can say for sure is I have known a lot of 'bad boys' (including the sadistic psychopathic bullies from my childhood) and not one of them had trouble attracting and keeping women. I saw men who constantly berated their women and they stuck around where someone like me would be dating, could say one thing, have it taken completely out of context and be treated like I had leprosy. I think in a lot of ways it shows how messed up many of these women are to chase after abusive people.
It is also my observation that most of the 'normal' women usually find a stable partner by a young age. I just got extremely lucky finding my wife. I can also relate to being called misogynistic but pointing out the 'bad boy' phenomena even though I am married to an outspoken feminist.


This, with The Grand Inquisitor's suggestions that 'all' language or disagreement on the frame can cause issues.

The other piece - you really have to understand that Darwinian game theory governs any conversation remotely political and that includes philosophy, religion, and love, because they clearly have social outcomes and there's no goal more central for most people than getting their genes into the next generation - and if they don't believe that then the biological frame they're living on, once they hit a certain age, will end it's suffering in silence and really start beating them over the head with the impression that if they don't have kids they'll cease to exist for all of eternity and have absolutely failed the very point of having been born (which is absurd if you're a reductive materialist and believe that we're all going to cease to exist with or without kids, and it's equally absurd if your any kind of idealist, panpsychist, or theist, but this is what your subconscious will start dishing at you toward mid-life crisis if you're single).

So the two reasons I think people would knowingly 'lie' about this:

1) What a lot of the women in question want biologically is not what they want to want. They're as enculturated and educated in the world of secular humanist values as any guy whose looking at this from the other side and it's horribly embarrassing when and if your sex drive is leading you diametrically against your own values. I'd maybe ask some of the same guys though - how do you feel about not being able to date a woman you find attractive? It it hush-hush because it humiliates you or makes a mockery of your core values? Pretty much the same thing here.

2) Secular humanism and all the sort of Greek philosophic values like 'e pluribus unum', live by the golden rule, all human life is equal, none of that exists in nature and sexuality is as close to the root of nature as you can get. Nature is the game of Darwinian stompout which means most women run into the abject horror of realizing that - in dealing with society - all anyone cares about is their looks and similarly men run into the abject horror that all anyone cares about is their level of social prestige, how much money they make, property they own, and then after that looks do matter.

If you're an outlier in any way, especially if you're cursed to have a natural proclivity toward depth - as a male or female - the dating world will make certain that you suffer because all that you value about yourself needs to be shaved off, left a the door, and the market place needs to treat you as badly as it wants - as a visual or financial commodity - and if you won't submit to that then you're the aging bitter cat lady or dog man who wouldn't play the game and ends up alone.

I'm also going to even go a bit darker for a second - if there is any sort of will or coherence in nature - I think this is deliberate, ie. the procreation game is supposed to be as unnavigable as possible for maximizing the number of people who can't procreate on the terms of the game. If life in general gets easier (ie. less starvation, food shortage, disease, modern medical breakthroughs, etc.) then the bar for each person entering gets lifted either up to the sky, possibly placed on the moon. IMHO it seems like it's only there for people who either are in the five or ten percent of genetic stock that's wanted by everyone or those who want it badly enough to submit themselves to being completely dehumanized.

IMHO there are a lot of places where nature shows its hatred for life, this is one of those areas - right up there with neoliberal economics - where things are incredibly red in tooth and nail and where a person's value only matters within the most narrow parameters.


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GiantHockeyFan
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24 Feb 2020, 8:16 am

BTDT wrote:
Maybe what they are trying to tell you is that women aren't interested in "fake bad boys." Trying to act like a "bad boy" for girls isn't going to work. Many Aspie guys aren't good at masking in ordinary social situations. In a romantic situation you are going to be observed very closely.


The last time I saw a 'fake bad boy' at a recreational sports event I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. The guy was a hardcore stereotypical computer nerd going up in the face and acting tough against a ex-military member who could have thrown him over his shoulder with one hand. Luckily the only thing that happened was that he got laughed at for being so ridiculous.



Marknis
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24 Feb 2020, 2:13 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
BTDT wrote:
Maybe what they are trying to tell you is that women aren't interested in "fake bad boys." Trying to act like a "bad boy" for girls isn't going to work. Many Aspie guys aren't good at masking in ordinary social situations. In a romantic situation you are going to be observed very closely.


The last time I saw a 'fake bad boy' at a recreational sports event I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. The guy was a hardcore stereotypical computer nerd going up in the face and acting tough against a ex-military member who could have thrown him over his shoulder with one hand. Luckily the only thing that happened was that he got laughed at for being so ridiculous.


Luckily he didn’t do that to a redneck, especially with how trigger happy they are.