The line "he had his chance and blew it"

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Rage and alchohol would generate impaired thinking. I wouldn't consider impaired thoughts as revealing the "true person."

Rage induces motivation, alcohol reduces inhibition, and firearms provide the means -- all a person needs is a victim, and "BLAMMO!" ... instant exposure of a person's true feelings, and another case of ultimate spousal abuse.

I didn't say this in OP, so you are making an assumption based on the fact that I have Asperger -- which is a whole other problem I also have issues with.

But, to answer your question, the way I push women away is often the opposite to what you say: I act clingy. But then as an afterthought I realize that it was silly that I was upset that she messaged me "only" once in half an hour instead of every 5 minutes: now that I have to wait days for her next message, getting a message once in half an hour would have been perfect. But she won't get the fact that my perspective had changed due to a well known phenomenon called hindsight. She still feels like messaging me every half an hour wouldn't be enough.

The other way I push the women away is by talking about ex-s a lot. I do that because I have accmmulated pain of all those rejections and I am trying to make sense of it. So that is a bit closer to what you described: if I talk about ex-s that means that I am not interested in her. But what makes it more complicated than this is that, in a lot cases I tend to mix the two: I both talk about ex-s "and" complain about not getting attention from the woman I am talking to. But "a lot" doesn't mean all. In case of the latest woman, I didn't get to my ex-s yet. It was "only" me nagging her about her not messaging me more often.

The part that makes the latest woman fit into the OP so well is that she didn't give up right away. After my very first rant fueled by my not getting a text from her as soon as I wished, her very first reaction was to suggest to talk on the phone. But you see, in that rant I didn't explicitly say that not hearing soon was what triggered me. She was able to guess it without my saying it. And vast majority of other women couldn't: other women in similar situation just thought that I was looking for an argument, or was over analyzing for the sake of over analyzing. But she *knew* that it was about not hearing from her and she *knew* suggesting a phone call would fix it. And yes, what she did is *exactly* what all those other women *should have done*. So the big question is: why didn't things become golden with her? Well, they didn't because, in that particular situation, my bad mood had nothing to do with her, and I was just using her as a punching bag. I basically was thinking "she is across the country from me anyway, and who knows when we will meet with covid and all that, meanwhile I am upset about my schoolwork and about something my mom said, so lets just use that woman as a punching bag". Long story short, she continued to be supportive, I continued to be crappy (although less crappy than at first) and then the next *day* she was sort of going back and forth on not dating me vs giving me a second chance -- which caused me to be less engaged the next few days -- and then few days later she said she didn't want to date me because I didn't show interest the next few days (although the reason I didn't show interest is because it "sounded like" she already decided not to date me few days earlier).

But in any case, going back to the point of this thread. She basically gave me 15 chances in a row during the day when I was in a really bad mood, so I blew every single one of them. But then the next day I was no longer in a bad mood, so if only she were to give me a chance number 16, I would totally take it. Yet she didn't want to do it. Why not? Was she thinking I will blow it as well? But I already told her I blew the first 15 only because I was in a bad mood but now -- thanks to the phenomenon called 20/20 hindsight -- I would never blow the chance number 16. I mean I told her over and over how stupid I felt for blowing those chances which implies that I won't do it again. Or was it because herself doesn't have enough capacity to do it? That is hard to believe too: looking at how she gave me the first 15 chances, she sounds like a very patient person, so I am sure she has enough patient to add just one more chance to it -- IF she thought it was worth it -- and apparently she doesn't. I mean look at how her very first reaction to my very first fit was to suggest to talk on the phone. I am still totally amaised by that, since most other women wouldn't have realized it. So she sounds like a person who totally gets me. This, in combination with how bad I feel about blowing it, should imply that things would work out perfectly if only she were to try again.

Absolutely correct: I made an assumption. But not because you have Asperger's. Even in the NT-NT dating world, this is often what signals the end of a potential connection. One person does not pursue or respond as the other person thinks they should. Which I believe is exactly your concern with the woman you describe. So you are in a good position to relate.



This goes back to the element of trust. She gave you a lot of chances. She kept investing in you, expecting that you will reciprocate and appreciate her patience. But instead you took her investment for granted, which would have hurt her feelings. By chance 11 (of 15) she was probably running out of patience. Most women will not give you more than one or two chance, as best.

I see it as an interview, when you go out on a date or meet a woman, you are basically being interviewed. If you want to make a good impression, you basically have to look well, groom, well, dress well, even have a nice place looking clean, I don't mean have it be a parade of homes but show this is how you live.

You don't just enter a relationship and expect your partner to change for you. This will just cause resentment later down the road and create friction. Plus people tend to show their true colors after around 3 months of dating because that energy boost you had in your brain wears off.

I have been in two previous relationships and I did give my ex's the chance to change, I talked to them, told them what was bothering me, nothing changed so that is why I have two ex's. Women who stay and expect their partners to change are making a big mistake.

Sometimes people will play you a fiddle when you meet them because they put on a show to impress you but that doesn't last very long. My first ex did that to me.

I've had people tell me here and on Reddit that me and my husbands both need to fight and bicker and have screaming matches because we are just holding it all in if we don't do this. Even my ex's had this concept too. Everyone has this misconception that it's normal to have screaming matches in relationships when you disagree. My parents never fought in front of us and if they did, we would have heard them. Rarely did my mom yell at my father.

I think it's projection when anyone assumes me and my husband are just holding it all in. It's like relationships with zero insult matches and pissing matches don't exist. It's like me and my husband don't exist lol. That just tells me what kind of environment they grew up in so to them this is normal.

Nope, it's Fnord land, try again.

You mentioned in your first reply that by the word "trust" you didn't mean literally as in I won't lie, but rather it means that I won't hurt her feelings. Now, if she believes me that I am not lying -- then why wouldn't she want to hear me out when it comes to my reasoning why I won't hurt her feelings? And if she does hear my reasoning, why wouldn't she believe it? I mean I know how I operate a lot better than she does (not because she is stupid but because anybody knows themselves better than the outsider looking in). Or is she assuming I am not self aware?



Yes thats how it felt like. She didn't make a snap change but she started to back off gradually. I guess I just remember the first few chances when she wasn't backing off yet and feel impressed that she had a lot more patience than most.



Which is precisely why I want another chance from her so badly. The fact that she gave me a lot more chances than most women makes me feel like she could be a perfect match for me if only I were to reciprocate. So now that I know it by the hindsight, why doesn't she believe me that I will do it?

Speaking of the fact that other women only give one or two chances, that is a whole other topic that I also don't understand: I been facing the situation with women -- other than her -- where I would blow it after the very first faux pas and what I don't get is why do women assume that some simple faux pas is reflective of how I am in general?

Incidentally, even with this woman, the last straw happened to be a faux pas. So what happened -- few days *after* I blew those aforementioned 15 chances -- is that I asked her whether she lost interest. She told me that she felt like I wasn't interested in her and was just passing my time. So I said "clearly I was interested in you -- or else why would I be nagging you for attention". Then she asked me why I used the word "was" rather than "am", and whether it means that I was interested before and not interested now. I said "yes I like you now". She said "so you were interested before but are not interested now, I understand". I totally felt like she was just playing a joke on me or something: I just told her I am interested now, and then she purposely reiterated as if I said otherwise. So I started repeating over and over "yes I am interested now: I was interested before, and I am also interested now; the reason I used the word was is because I was talking about what happened before; but the point is that I was interested before and I am still interested now". After I sent 5 similar messages in a row she said "don't you see I am at work", so then I asked when she will come back from work and she said when she will. But after she came back she never addressed my clarifications about was vs am, she just stated she wants to be just friends, and no matter how hard I pushed to changed her mind, she sticked by her decision (the best I could get out of her is to change "friends" to "friends first and see what happens", but then a week later when I brought it up again she changed it back to friends and said we will never date). Now, when I was reading over this chatlog over and over I finally realized that maybe -- apart from am vs was -- there was another issue: first reply to her question about it was "yes I like you now" when it should have been "yes I am interested now" (yes I gave her subsequent replies with the "interested nw" in it, but it was too late). Now, on my end, I used the word "like" as a synonym of "interested". But maybe she read it differently, maybe she understood "like" as in like her as a friend? Now, if I were to give myself a few minutes to read over my text I might have realized that there might be a slight chance of confusion and I better correct this word at such a critical time as this. But I didn't give myself few minutes because I was too eager to send the text to get her reply since I was so agitated. And that was a mistake too. And by the way I still don't know if the use of the word "like" contributed to it. She never told me since she didn't want to discuss this subject. But I don't know how else to make sense of it. Why would in a response to my saying "yes I like you now" she would respond "so you were interested before but are not interested now". The other thing I can think of is that we were typing at the same time so maybe she said it before she read my reply. But then it wouldn't make much sense either: she already posed a question, so she was supposed to wait for my reply, so why would she repeat the same thing in a statement form *unless* she already saw my reply?

In any case, like I mentioned earlier, this happened few days *after* I blew those 15 chances (or however many there were). Back at that day she was a lot more patient than that. So basically the difference between her and most other women is this: most other women actually *start* with that nitpickiness. In her case she started very patient and *ended up* like that *after* I used up her patience.

And going back to the "trust" thing that you mentioned. Do you think she didn't trust me when I told her that when I accidentally misused the word it was, in fact, an accident? If so, wouldn't "lack of trust" in this particular situation, in fact, mean that she thinks I lied? Or would it rather mean that she knows I didn't lie but she thinks it was my subconsciousness speaking and I am not self aware? If she thinks I lied, what would be a point of telling a lie regarding what I meant? If I am not interested in her, there is no point in lying in attempts to get something I am supposedly not interested in. If its the consciousness vs subconsciousness thing, that would look rather striking: so consciously I feel all this desperate need to be with her and subconsciously I am not even interested to begin with? Does she think I have multiple personalities or something?

I see your point that people make themselves look better than they really are. But that is actually a point in my favor, since this is precisely what I am *not* doing (which is why I am blowing up first impressions). So maybe the misunderstanding is that people don't believe me that I am *not* putting best foot forward so they feel like if my best foot is so bad, just how bad will my true self be. But if only they could understand that -- indeed -- I didn't put my best foot forward, maybe then they will realize that I am the kind of person with whom what you see is what you got, which is a good thing (particularly in the context of others not being that way).

Its interesting that you were trying to make a point that your marriage is peaceful, yet you still acknowledge that on rare occasions some fights do occur. This just shows that fights occur in "all" marriages, even the most peaceful ones. But then the question is: why would a woman make a decision that it will never work simply because one of these fights just "happened" to have occurred in the first date rather than in marriage? If its normal to have fights in a marriage, why isn't it normal to have fights in the first date? I guess its because everyone are putting their best foot forward on the first date. Well, I am one of the rare people that doesn't do it. So maybe its a good thing, since with me what you see is what you get? Why doesn't anyone think that?

This ^^^^

They most likely expect that this is the best things will ever be with you, and then there will be moments that are worse.

(All relationships have highs and lows, it is a matter of how good the highs are and how bad the lows are that set the tone of how good the relationship is over all)

Faith in humanity is really not all there today...

So why do they assume that its the best that will ever be with me, instead of assuming its one of the lows? Like others pointed out, most marriages have fights. So, by this logic, if you look at one of the marriages and pick the day when there is a fight, will you say "thats the best that will ever be in that marriage"?

Also, if they are assuming thats the best that will ever be in my case, do they think I am the kind of person that has a fight with every single person I meet every single day? Just how horrible do they envision me to be?

Which way are you saying? Is it

a) I shouldn't have faith in humanity of the women I am talking about

or

b) The women I am talking about don't have faith in my humanity?

The other interesting word you used is "today". I noticed that, back in the 90-s, people didn't seem to avoid me the way they do now; and, back then, I did, in fact get chance after chance (although I didn't care). I was always wondering: was it because I was younger, or was it because the time was different? So, based on your reply, are you saying the latter is the case?

I just meant in general, it's apparent when people are more negative then usual on this forum.

Especially growing up in Philadelphia. Forgiveness is not part of the City Of Brotherly Love.