The secret of the jerk by Pook (Long!)

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ToadOfSteel
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27 Sep 2007, 1:17 pm

Pugly wrote:
I find it strange that the thing I consider most precious to me, my ability to think an analyze things... what makes me human and makes me feel alive... is contrary to what is regarded as "male."

Then what off designing systems and building things... this is a stereotypically male thing to do. Then why isn't it considered manly?


One thing I alluded to in my previous post is the Reptilian Complex, in which basic horomone-driven and instinctual reactions are from a part of the brain that has remained the same since the days of reptiles, while progressively higher and higher reasoning abilities are part of newer systems that are "wrapped" around the lower functions. To quote wiki:

Quote:
The R-complex is named for the most advanced part of the brain higher mammals share with reptiles. It is responsible for rage, xenophobia, basic survival fight-or-flight responses, territoriality and social hierarchy, along with the desire to submit to stronger (Alpha Type) members of one's own species.


So, in other words, people who use logic and reasoning in life are using a more evolved part of the brain than those who think only on instinct.



Pugly
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27 Sep 2007, 2:09 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
Pugly wrote:
I find it strange that the thing I consider most precious to me, my ability to think an analyze things... what makes me human and makes me feel alive... is contrary to what is regarded as "male."

Then what off designing systems and building things... this is a stereotypically male thing to do. Then why isn't it considered manly?


One thing I alluded to in my previous post is the Reptilian Complex, in which basic horomone-driven and instinctual reactions are from a part of the brain that has remained the same since the days of reptiles, while progressively higher and higher reasoning abilities are part of newer systems that are "wrapped" around the lower functions. To quote wiki:

Quote:
The R-complex is named for the most advanced part of the brain higher mammals share with reptiles. It is responsible for rage, xenophobia, basic survival fight-or-flight responses, territoriality and social hierarchy, along with the desire to submit to stronger (Alpha Type) members of one's own species.


So, in other words, people who use logic and reasoning in life are using a more evolved part of the brain than those who think only on instinct.


Hmm... it seems strange that a higher functioning more evolved brain function would be the exact function that leads to that person mating less... :?:


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Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


calandale
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27 Sep 2007, 7:47 pm

Pugly wrote:
So you are basically saying... this guy isn't sexy...


Never thought anyone taking a crap was, particularly.



Pugly
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27 Sep 2007, 7:51 pm

calandale wrote:
Pugly wrote:
So you are basically saying... this guy isn't sexy...


Never thought anyone taking a crap was, particularly.


Surprised that doesn't go along with your multitude of perversions...


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27 Sep 2007, 7:59 pm

Pugly wrote:
Surprised that doesn't go along with your multitude of perversions...


Nah. Never been with anyone who convinced me
that I desired that. Perhaps if you and I were together....



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27 Sep 2007, 8:03 pm

calandale wrote:

Nah. Never been with anyone who convinced me
that I desired that. Perhaps if you and I were together....


Your offer makes me want to throw up...

... this excretion has no romantic connotations... sorry.


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calandale
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27 Sep 2007, 8:31 pm

Pugly wrote:

Your offer makes me want to throw up...


I have that effect on people.
You might come to enjoy it. :P



techstepgenr8tion
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27 Sep 2007, 8:54 pm

Zak, the thing I love about all of that you said - which I've come to see over the years myself a lot, if your a guy suffering from that horrid gender deformity called 'depth' its like understanding all that just proves that you have no right to live, no place on this earth, and that higher thought and reasoning really are nothing more than a malady. Thats just another reason why, I'll do my time here, and I never ever EVER want to come back to this place - there may be things of beauty here; mountains, nature, art, music, but for what this world stands for at the bottom line you could just as well throw it all in a pot and piss on it.



ToadOfSteel
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27 Sep 2007, 9:09 pm

Pugly wrote:
ToadOfSteel wrote:
Pugly wrote:
I find it strange that the thing I consider most precious to me, my ability to think an analyze things... what makes me human and makes me feel alive... is contrary to what is regarded as "male."

Then what off designing systems and building things... this is a stereotypically male thing to do. Then why isn't it considered manly?


One thing I alluded to in my previous post is the Reptilian Complex, in which basic horomone-driven and instinctual reactions are from a part of the brain that has remained the same since the days of reptiles, while progressively higher and higher reasoning abilities are part of newer systems that are "wrapped" around the lower functions. To quote wiki:

Quote:
The R-complex is named for the most advanced part of the brain higher mammals share with reptiles. It is responsible for rage, xenophobia, basic survival fight-or-flight responses, territoriality and social hierarchy, along with the desire to submit to stronger (Alpha Type) members of one's own species.


So, in other words, people who use logic and reasoning in life are using a more evolved part of the brain than those who think only on instinct.


Hmm... it seems strange that a higher functioning more evolved brain function would be the exact function that leads to that person mating less... :?:


Is that too much of a problem when you consider overpopulation?



Pugly
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27 Sep 2007, 9:13 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:

Is that too much of a problem when you consider overpopulation?


No, I'm questioning that it even evolved like that.

If the very trait causes them to create less progeny.... isn't that counter to evolution?


_________________
Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


ZakFiend
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27 Sep 2007, 9:26 pm

Pugly wrote:
So you are basically saying... this guy isn't sexy...

Image




First we need to take a journey, since you are looking for a "magic bullet"for ONE single solution or one absolute truth... there are exceptions but most women need a masculine guy...

What rewards them psychologically is different from what rewards YOU psychologically, you have to get that into your head. The first post is absolutely correct for the general population of women.

it's not that they hate intelligence, it's that unless the woman prefers intellectual or abstract topics for conversation, then you should seek out other like minded people, or clubs to get that part of you fulfilled and not rely on women to fulfil that part of yourself. Your problem is that you are too narrow and prejudice against things that women like to talk about or "small talk", if you're not going to try to expand your horizons, then that's your choice. But you can't expect women to change what they are attracted to which has been honed by millions of years of evolution.

You should read the below for yourself, it is very enlightening.

(Original link - http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/soros.htm )
George Soros wrote:

The Capitalist threat

What kind of society do we want? "Let the free market decide!" is the often-heard response. That response, a prominent capitalist argues,undermines the very values on which open and democratic societies depend.

IN The Philosophy of History, Hegel discerned a disturbing historical pattern -- the crack and fall of civilizations owing to a morbid intensification of their own first principles. Although I have made a fortune in the financial markets, I now fear that the untrammeled intensification of laissez-faire capitalism and the spread of market values into all areas of life is endangering our open and democratic society. The main enemy of the open society, I believe, is no longer the communist but the capitalist threat.

The term "open society" was coined by Henri Bergson, in his book The Two Sources of Morality and Religion (1932), and given greater currency by the Austrian philosopher Karl Popper, in his book The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945). Popper showed that totalitarian ideologies like communism and Nazism have a common element: they claim to be in possession of the ultimate truth. Since the ultimate truth is beyond the reach of humankind, these ideologies have to resort to oppression in order to impose their vision on society. Popper juxtaposed with these totalitarian ideologies another view of society, which recognizes that nobody has a monopoly on the truth; different people have different views and different interests, and there is a need for institutions that allow them to live together in peace. These institutions protect the rights of citizens and ensure freedom of choice and freedom of speech. Popper called this form of social organization the "open society." Totalitarian ideologies were its enemies.

Written during the Second World War, The Open Society and Its Enemies explained what the Western democracies stood for and fought for. The explanation was highly abstract and philosophical, and the term "open society" never gained wide recognition. Nevertheless, Popper's analysis was penetrating, and when I read it as a student in the late 1940s, having experienced at first hand both Nazi and Communist rule in Hungary, it struck me with the force of revelation.

I was driven to delve deeper into Karl Popper's philosophy, and to ask, Why does nobody have access to the ultimate truth? The answer became clear: We live in the same universe that we are trying to understand, and our perceptions can influence the events in which we participate. If our thoughts belonged to one universe and their subject matter to another, the truth might be within our grasp: we could formulate statements corresponding to the facts, and the facts would serve as reliable criteria for deciding whether the statements were true.



Last edited by ZakFiend on 27 Sep 2007, 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ToadOfSteel
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27 Sep 2007, 9:34 pm

Pugly wrote:
ToadOfSteel wrote:

Is that too much of a problem when you consider overpopulation?


No, I'm questioning that it even evolved like that.

If the very trait causes them to create less progeny.... isn't that counter to evolution?


I'm thinking it might be a snap back of population to some other historical level. The whole purpose of large amounts of procreation was that every species had predators. When Homo Sapiens came around, humans became the sole dominant power in the world (with no natural predators). Disease continued to keep the population in check, but since the invention of the precursor to sewage systems in the mid-19th century, disease rates dropped dramatically. With nothing keeping it in check, the human population exploded. If this trend continues, we must either learn to terraform other planets, or otherwise face extinction due to Earth not being able to support all of us. So many births in America today, for example, are "accidental" conceptions, often by those "jerks". China tries to control its population artifically (one child policy). but I think that nature has its own way of dealing with the overpopulation issue: the spectrum "disorders" are really just a series of (relatively new) evolutionary traits that will allow us to live in equilibrium with our environment (not necessarily tree-hugging, but at the very least not screwing our environment to oblivion), as well as allow us to survive even when we have the technology to destroy ourselves 10 times over.



ZakFiend
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27 Sep 2007, 9:51 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
Pugly wrote:
ToadOfSteel wrote:

Is that too much of a problem when you consider overpopulation?


No, I'm questioning that it even evolved like that.

If the very trait causes them to create less progeny.... isn't that counter to evolution?

<snip>

... If this trend continues, we must either learn to terraform other planets, or otherwise face extinction due to Earth not being able to support all of us.
.


Being a little fatalist there aren't you? Population decline in Europe, Canada, Japan, and even the US (in the white population) proves that once people get out of desperate poverty populations will begin to decline.

The places we should be worrying about are backwards nations, and places like China and India, which will most likely go to war to externalize the economic and political pressure cooker of billions of people all wanting a western lifestyle.



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27 Sep 2007, 9:58 pm

ZakFiend wrote:
First we need to take a journey, since you are looking for a "magic bullet"for ONE single solution or one absolute truth...

I'm just looking for truth, and asking plenty of questions along the way. In the variety of people I'm perfectly aware that there isn't one perfect solution. I've basically accepted the fact that I need to go for the unconventional women in viewpoints and physical appearance to find someone. I'm fine with that, because I'm attracted to the unconventional...

ZakFiend wrote:
Your problem is that you are too narrow and prejudice against things that women like to talk about or "small talk", if you're not going to try to expand your horizons, then that's your choice.

So previously, you say be manly and do manly things... now you are saying talk about things Women like to talk about? That's not exactly manly... in fact if I did talk about such things... it wouldn't even be acting on instinct.

ZakFiend wrote:
But you can't expect women to change what they are attracted to which has been honed by millions of years of evolution.

And what of my ability to think which has been honed by millions of years of evolution.

I'm not completely discounting what you are saying, the evidence is pretty clear as to what mindset works in attracting women.

But I'm thinking the failure of "nice guys", genuine chivalrous nice guys, is more about the aura that surrounds our current society. The aura that places such a high importance on sexual characteristics to the exclusion of others, that are left by the wayside.

When I consider marriage and the social structures that hold society together so that we can advance... the nice guy qualities start looking pretty good. And I think they would look good to women if they weren't told to want and expect sexual advances so young.

I think you have to factor what's currently "in" with society, considering how social women truly are, before making claims about Jerks and Nice Guys.

In an older day, I think Nice guys wouldn't have as nearly as many problems.


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Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


NeantHumain
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27 Sep 2007, 10:36 pm

Behind all the elaborate Thus Spoke... posturing and Platonic dialogue, it looks like all you're trying to say is "moderation." In addition, the organization is weird (it almost looks like you copied and pasted it off some website where the headings were boldfaced and sized differently). I can tell you that I probably have a somewhat above-average level of testosterone for guys my age, and it doesn't make it any easier for me to interact with women or get sex. The AS symptoms of having trouble reading people (and thus even knowing if a woman might be interested), knowing how to respond in a social situation, etc. easily negate any benefits of having high testosterone (in fact, this lack of social grace makes it more likely that the more negative aspects of masculinity will erupt).



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27 Sep 2007, 10:44 pm

And what's the deal with control... control means you know when to control it... right?

Knowledge is still needed to turn into ultraman... and then to know when to hold back.

So basically you have the same unified attraction theory every one else is trying to come up with... except you leave somethings up to manly-chance.


_________________
Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.