Betraying an aspie...

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There are just certain betrayal points and I as an aspie generally makes them clear.
Some people just live to break the rules.

If they have been made clear and the betrayal happens there is really no going back to a point of cohesion. It just doesn't happen. Deterioration happens. Unless the behavior was expected and no true bond or place of trust existed in the first place.

If betrayal points have not been made clear, then the fault lies on the aspie, thus giving the mislabel of loyal and forgiving. We are not loyal and forgiving. We are self faulting until facts that no reasonable person on any level of any bell curve would disagree with are rousted to a deliverable statement (mental or otherwise)-to the point of reachig a point where the dumb willy who disagrees with it must be insane. There is a difference.

Why pain oneself by forgiving an pointed intented instigator of oneself.

I'm not loyal or forgiving. Lose my trust-it will always be gone if it was ever there to begin with; barring special exceptions.
You may be kept around for usefullness, necessity, experimentation/research, or observation more commonly known as the ol addage: keep your friends close your enimies closer.
Still... Corrosion happens. It can't but not. I base things on what I can trust. When I can no longer trust them there is no 'changing my mind'. I'm prewired to not tread dangerous circumstances that would lead to self corruption. I can rot by inactivity of not choosing as I think things through and process the information and changes in the information; until the point where I can no longer rot for my health. For someone set up to betray this is appeasable, as I wasn't worth my worth to them to begin with. My fuse gets both shorter and longer with age-depending on context.
I believe this may be the root-at least in myself-of most intrapersonal problems.

If your not intrapersonal where are the problems?

*SIGH* Well, that all seems kind of sad, really.

If there's one thing I've learned about people in general, it's that everyone loses trust for someone who has betrayed them. It may be deeper with people with AS, but I know once I feel someone has betrayed me, they are never the same in my eyes. That's because betrayal is a common theme in the human condition. It adds a different dynamic to any relationship and will affect it, forgiveness or no forgiveness. An NT relationship is never the same after betrayal, but I think some people try to see the person as a human making a mistake, and will forgive them and if there is room in their heart, forget to some degree.

If my friend had stolen something from me, I wouldn't be able to trust them. No one could. Awhile ago my brother's "friend" broke into his apartment. They haven't spoken to eachother since, and in good reason.

But at the same time, if someone accused me of stealing, it may be pretty hard to trust or feel comfortable around them. So both sides have a point to some degree.

what do you guys see as betrayal. that term is so broad that it's mind numbing.

Anytime someone is trying to gain my trust merely to take advantage of me, that is a betrayal...

keeping the whole truth from me when they know i wouldn't stand for it.... just to manipulate me and keep me close. to me, it's worse than flat out lying cause they always still feel justified in in their actions and always try to negate my reactions when i do find out their intentions.

If my GF would cheat on me, I wouldn't be able to forgive her easily. how can I trust her? how can she love me and cheat on me? questions I don't know the answer to, but need a good asnwer for. if she can give me good answers, I might be able to forgive her. if it was a mistake I can forgive her

Exactly, and I also agree very much with the other poster who said we have real trouble forgetting. I seem to have selective forgetfulness too. After some time has passed, I won't feel quite so bad about the betrayal, whatever it is, but then if other things go wrong in my life the original betrayal comes back just as vividly as if it just happened. I also think once trust is betrayed, it can be partly regained if the other person makes amends but you're still wondering if something else will happen.

This is very true, in my life I have been screwed over by many people I thought were friends, because of them 'stabbing me in the back I never forgave them and never spoke to them again. I only have 4 people I would trust entirely and they are like brothers and sisters. However the moment someone goes behind my back the memories of other betrayals remain and they come right back to me. I find that if you decide to be friends with someone aspies expect the other person to be loyal, to not say things behind your back ro to say something to offend you. Probably because we take so few friends those we make we try to hold on to them and put mroe effort into them, and if something goes wrong it seems we have wasted our time and the other person has misunderstood us. Wee can't trust that person anymore. Aspies are usually the most loyal friends you can find and sadly because of this NT's, who naturally go behind peoples back means that we find it much harder to trust and approch other people because we worry that they will be just the same as all the other NT's we have met.

The long-term aspie memory is great, but it's also our own worst enemy.
Don't think for a minute that we're any more forgiving with ourselves when we stuff things up.

I have lists in my head of things that I've done wrong or should have done better going way back into my childhood.

I think aspies are rather trusting and naive too (well, I am), so it's easy to take advantage of them.

I've betrayed every girlfriend I've had.. I've betrayed every family member I have...

I guess now I see it as betrayal, but back then it was simply fair game, I felt they were betraying me in that they would never acknowledge what mattered to me but would ask me to respect their property etc, which I simply couldn't do.

So I don't think we don't betray, or are more honest or whatever, it all depends where that brutal honesty is being directed. Nowdays I point it inwards and find I haven't hurt anyone, however the downside of this is people seem to be taking advantage of me a lot more.

The hardest part for me is trying to live and function in personal relationships (marriage, business, work...) once the trust has died but the contract lives on. When I was younger I was quick to drop everything and walk away, but that only works for so long. Responsibilities don't just dissolve, and the one thing I hold dear about myself, my word, is still on the line.

I have been betrayed many times. I know how much it hurts, and I will never EVER betray some one. I just can't

I can sort of relate to this. Im generally very tolerant of people and only judge people by their actions. If someone goes over that tolerance level then its like a switch. I may still treat that person with respect but will make no effort to be "friendly". Its really black and white. Its like a chart and everyone is rated on the chart. Where they place is what level of tolerance and trust I would place in each person and with what.

Say if I lent someone $20. If they payed me back when they said they would gain trust with me. If they payed me back but late then Id be less inclined to lend anything larger than $20. If they never payed me back I probably wouldnt say anything but Id never help them in any way that would cost me in some way.

I've been betrayed a couple of times, so now it feels like anything that might not be considered as betrayal to one person IS considered as it to me, because I am jut too cautious now, though I generally can be friendly with anyone, as long as they gain my trust, which most people do until they betray me

Once I'm betrayed, that's normally it, until the person can regain my trust, which is a little on the rare side but can be done

You ever notice how in fiction the really bad/evil characters (the ones with no spark of good in them) are almost always some form of betrayer?

Betrayal has many meanings. People can betray by cheating, abandoning, back-stabbing. To me, back-stabbing is the worst. If I consider you a "friend" and I find out you've been talking behind my back and telling everyone else you think I'm scum, there's not much you can do to regain my trust.

This just recently happened to me. The person in question even went as far as to bash me in front of one of my real friends. My actual friend, although he thinks very little of this person, was actually prompted by the conversation he heard to ask me if I knew the difference between a friend and an acquaintance. I felt humiliated (not by my actual friend but by the back-stabber) and that is the one emotion you don't want to elicit in me.

I'm very forgiving, too much at times. Once you cross a line with me though, there is no going back.