Is this the way Aspie Men think in terms of relationships?

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Yes. And here's why...

Imagine it takes an NT male a certain amount of faith and devotion to let a mate into his personal space. Now compare that to the faith and devotion it takes an Aspie male to surrender his personal space. Comforting habits and patterns are broken; panic-inducing uncertainty arises; vital control is surrendered; the stability of the Aspie's inner sanctum is disrupted; his thoughts and feelings are no longer entirely private. For an Aspie, this is fundamentally terrifying: we enter into life-altering uncertainty, while discarding the very tools we use to remain sane.

It isn't necessarily that Aspie love is itself better. (If anything, there are more obstacles to overcome.) It's just that if an Aspie guy loves you enough to add this much turmoil to his life, you are a special person to him indeed. It's not that Aspies love more deeply; it's just that frivolous love isn't worth the cost.

There are things you can do to invite an Aspie guy to get closer. You must communicate clearly without expecting an immediate, personal reply. Share in plain language how you are feeling, what you think, what you enjoy, and what you expect. (You will likely have to take the first few steps; be persistent.) If he really loves you, he will eventually try to respond in kind - though in his own way: simply, honestly, at his own pace. Never hold him responsible for things he "should" have said, or didn't word "right"; nurture even the smallest disclosures, because each one represents a world of trust.

Think about it like approaching a timid animal. Your progress will be slow, and hard-won. Show that you are happy and calm, and break eye contact if he looks like he may run. If he runs, wait calmly for him to return, or he may not come back at all.

Be generous with the sugar cubes.

Tharn: I like the sugar cube analogy... hadn't thought of myself like a spooked horse, but that's pretty apt. *hands two cubes*

Fnord: I am afeared for your sanity, then. You might want the 'special' cubes to shakes the mental Etch-a-Sketch.

Sands: Tharn has some pretty specific advice; can I just second what was said there as well?

Eeesh - all five letter names. Creepy!


M.

I'm not the first to think along these lines. If you haven't read Temple Grandin's "Animals in Translation", I suggest you do so. She suggests quite a few ways in which animals and Autistics are strikingly similar - not just in terms of behavior, but in terms of experience.

I read this book about the same time I started looking more deeply into my Aspieness. At the same time, I had started spending more time with my chinchilla, Voodoo. I started to see my own sensitivities mirrored more clearly in Voodoo's behavior, than in the NT's around me.

(A chinchilla is like a super-smart, jumpy ball of soft fluff with the brain of a 2 year old. It's the fun you thought you would have with a hamster when you were a kid, before you got home and discovered it was fragile, hateful, and lazy.)

At first, Voodoo was stand-offish. He interacted with me in his own time, on his own terms, or not at all. If I was impatient, he would remember and be more cautious for a couple days. I learned to make offerings to him in his own language: some cheerios, half a raisin, a sunflower seed. I went at his pace.

He now recognizes me by scent or sound, responds to his own name, jumps on command, and even asks for different kinds of attention. I think he loves me, as much as a chinchilla is able. It takes gentle patience to earn an Aspie's trust, but once it's earned, there's nothing more rewarding. ^_^

Would you mind if I asked what inspires all this devotion? I want to try to find myself a girlfriend, but being how I am, I need all the help I can get.

About the always assuming the worst -- in my experience, it almost always leads to incorrect conclusions. It is very easy to imagine terrible, awful, horribly bad situations, that have very nearly zero probability of being correct.

If he seems standoffish it might (or might not) be that he's trying to give you space, because he likes you, and wants to make you happy, and just does what would make him happy -- give you a bit of space. Needing space doesn't at all indicate a dislike of being near you, it's an indication that he needs a certain amount of time to himself. If he's anything like me, he spends a lot of time alone, processing things in his mind. And if he can't get that for long enough, he'll get antsy and irritable. In a way, needing space is like needing sleep -- you need decent sized blocks of it, regularly, and you can't go too long without it. That's how I am anyway.

Also -- subtle hints bounce off of me like bullets bounce off of Superman. Sometimes not-so-subtle hints don't do much better.

Sure, I can try to explain why I feel the way I do! For one thing he has a lot of confidence in me as a person. I'd never had that before. He doesn't try to own, control or tell me what to do and I don't think that would change no matter what type of relationship we were in. If he thinks he's at fault about something he has no problem saying he's sorry. If I ask for advice he gives it to the best of his ability. When he complements me I know he's telling me in his eyes the truth. I don't have to listen to the stupid stuff that most NT males are so fond of using as pick up lines. Regardless of his routines and rituals he still tries to carve out some time for us to spend together. He admits he has Aspergers and is willing to help me understand him better. He listens to my questions and it may take him some time, but he always tries to answer them. We share the same values, goals and religious beliefs. I can't really tell you one main thing that causes my devotion. I think it's a million little things or more that he does. That being said, we are still just good friends.

"Me Too"! !

I don't think I've ever seen a thread with so much agreement in it! At first I thought there was nothing more to add, but in a vain attempt to kill the thread, I came up with a couple of points

Firstly, I've read a fair amount about AS in relationships, like Maxine Ashtons "Aspergers in Love" and loads of online stuff, and it strikes me that the points being consistently made here have been missed by the (assumed) NT writers on AS in relationships.

What is so 'impossible', as they repeatedly say, about a partner who is absolutely loyal, honest, devoted and above all never tries to control you? You'd think we'd be the ones in demand not continually ignored and rejected. I think it's yet another example of the difference between NT world and us, or maybe about NT's all too often meaning something completely different to what they're saying.

Now this is going to vary for the genders, but I'm speculating that whatever they say, many NT women want a man who actually drives them to change their perceived faults NOT accept them! If you accept their foibles and respond with 110% devotion and loyalty, they will have no motivation to make any effort. There's no better motivation than trying to make a positive impression on the opposite sex. Look at all those great works of art, music, science and engineering created by ugly men

Pure speculation, but I'm wondering if there isn't a big difference between what NT and AS want from a partner here. I agree with all those who say what an Aspie wants is acceptance. We want somebody who can tolerate our quirks as we know it's hell to change them. NT's want someone who will transform them. Or assist them in transformation, into the high-status mega-being they feel they are deep down but that has somehow got hidden in the realities of everyday life. They want to be completed, not accepted. e.g. the millions of song lines varying the theme of "I am nothing without you"....

Last edited by ManErg on 26 Jul 2008, 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm completely NT, but my favorite aspie accepts me anyway! I've always looked at the way we reach each other as crossing a bridge. Sometimes in the worst case a mist of fog engulfs the bridge and we can't see, hear or understand anything the other says. We've developed a back up plan though. We simple reach out until we run into each other. I know in my heart he will probably never have a romantic interest in anyone. The word romance is associated with things impractical and imaginative. Things he can't and won't be. Romance also involves buying dead flowers to gain what should be given out of love anyway. I'm sure in his eyes love and value of another person have little to do with romance. I care enough about this person to respect his need for us to be only friends.

I can't answer why others might feel different than I do. I can only give my opinions on the matter. In my eyes I had rather have a root canal or get run over by a semi than have cheap, degrading meaningless sex with a guy that called me "sweet thing" or "sugar moma!! !! !" And I know my favorite aspie would never do any of those things.

Wow again.. you could be me. You describe exactly how I feel with my relationship. The feeling that I'm not important though he has told me that I am and it will always be true. It's so hard to tell sometimes. Like you, all I have is a friendship but I too want this man in my life.

See how powerful you guys can be on us? I've read several posts today of the same thing.

Yes. But if you do anything wrong, you'll learn of the dark side.

I am an NT, I am older than him and our relationship is online. We talk with a mic, we have used a webcam and we have had one real life visit.

In 3 years he's never gotten angry with me though I have with him. He can talk me out of my bad mood or anger very easily. He points out things that others would never say. Mostly he is friendly, excited about everything, always happy, and he listens. He teaches me things, explains things I don't understand, like how a space elevator works. Before I knew he had AS I used to just think he was fun, every day was a different adventure. He also accepts my age like I am an equal until we discuss something about becoming more than friends. He doesn't think of me that way.

I don't care that he is younger, all I know is how he makes me feel and I guess that's the key. He makes me feel young and smart and validated. He makes the time to spend with me and makes me feel like I am important to someone. He is the one who is random in showing up so I'm the one that's always here waiting. If I sit and think about my life without him in it, it seems rather bland and boring. That's the best I can explain it.

I sent you a message.

Sands, back to OP, its what I'd personally aim for. I also think environment helps to shape things that way, as in if we have anyone who's *really* interested in us and moves into our spheres in a way to prove that they really mean it - it often ends up being something so rare that we're more than happy to put as much as possible into the relationship, be monogamous, etc.. Also I think because of the dating strain we go through we get particular about personality and very specifically look for women with the right types of personality who want to work toward having a solid relationship, one based on a great deal of trust and autonomy.

Thanks for the replies written here - they have helped me more than you know.

I don't know about a "deeper" love, but I have watched my boyfriend grow and change from a complete anti-social a**hole into this loving man. He doesn't pick up on my subtlety, he doesn't have much empathy in a heated fight and I can't get him to hang out with my friends 90% of the time, but he has other redeeming qualities. He is extremely affectionate at times, he loves to carry on long conversations, he enjoys fixing things and he generally tries to be a friendly person.

And I agree with those who have said that relationships are rare for those with aspergers. My boyfriend had few girlfriends before me and I am his first and only serious relationship. It makes me feel special

I couldn't really give a definitive answer, but from my perspective, in fact the LAST thing I would want to do is control the person I was in a relationship with. There's just something about the concept of controlling somebody else, or telling them what to do that just feels indescribably creepy and makes my skin crawl... urrrgh!
I also view a lot of the things that people do like 'romantic gestures', as rather meaningless and superficial. Things like single red roses... WHY?? I'd even go out on a limb and say I find marriage superficial, too.



Although this is probably all my downfall when it comes to things like that