If you're a nice guy, should you just accept it?

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If you are a nice person, such as it seems to be the case (and I am one as well), you should stick to being a nice person. No one in this life deserves to be alone, even Napoleon had Josephine and Hitler had Eva Brahn.

So here is my advice to you, if you're terribly shy around girls and you live on your own, you should consider match-making services, like Match.com, E-Harmony, etc. I would only do this as a last resort.

A more direct approach is striking up a conversation with a girl and if she's really interested in you, say "You seem like a pretty cool person. I got to go, but hey, would you be interested in hanging out sometime, maybe grabbing a bite to eat?" If she says "Sure, that sounds good" then ask her "When would you be available?". If she can come up with a date, try to set up a time to meet up, if not then give her your phone number and say "Here is my phone number, call me anytime you like, do you mind if I have your phone number too, so I can keep in contact with you?". If she says yes, then get her phone.

Another approach (this is a experimental approach, don't know if it works or not) is to act jaded around a girl you like or who likes you. If she likes you and she says so, you should say "Why should I trust you? I'm a bit skeptical, out of the ___ number of girls who have rejected me, why should I even think that you would care about me?". It is like acting hard to get, and you rejecting her and kind of being a jerk may make her want you more because it is a challenge. Like I said, don't if it works, but maybe it is worth a shot. Good luck!

I think you're misinterpreting the aloofness of the jerk stereotype. They have too many women hitting on them (supposedly), so they could take or leave this particular woman's affections.

Is anyone getting a bit bored of this nice/jerks guys spam in the love and dating? It is like broken record IMO. Is it any wonder people are not receptive? Who actually knows that they are a nice guy or a jerk? Are you trying to be one or the other? Are you hoping for an Oscar winning performance?

Then I think you might be missing the point, which is that Asperger’s makes it difficult to relate to other people and speak their language…so to speak. People off the spectrum go on about this nice guys issue too, but bare in mind they have their social skills inherently. It is not something they aware of, they just do it naturally, just like other animals. They may have opinions about their behaviour but that doesn't mean they are always right, behaviourist are stumped by them too. So whether or not this whole subject is a distraction or has some weight, doesn't predispose that you might need to figure out some basic social nuances first.

And this is not an excuse to be passive aggressive. I doubt that is sexy. Your problems are not always the fault of somebody else. It doesn't mean it is your fault either. Fault is pretty much irrelevant biologically, it’s a distraction that you can beat yourself up over, if you so wish.

If you are looking for a single grand plan solution, you might be sorry. Personally, I think it is an accumulation of lot of little things that might be more productive. I try to learn from my experiences. I not yet achieved what I want as far I know what that is, but I have learnt a little bit each time I've tried, so I believe I that bit closer to achieving it.

That doesn't mean I automatically side with those that behave as if Darwin was born yesterday, as if nothing has advanced from then. There is no doubt whe are bound by animal behaviours but evolutionary theory has evolved from classical Darwinism. We are highly individual animals with a wide range of personalises. Something that is common with intellegent animals living in large numbers where dominant/passive behaviour is not quite as simple as rutting and grooming. But we need it to be this way precisely because of the larges population we live in.

Yes human behaviour is not logical, but that is because we are viewing it as a person/individual. Whether it is logical or not, doesn't mean you can't use your own logic to figure out things.

People are picky especially you and me. If you don't think you have preferences, caveats, and hang-ups, you are delusional. Maybe it is better to think that you don't have any, delusion isn't actually as unhealthy as first thought, but it seem when people start blaming other people for their own pickiness, it is much like beating a dead horse.

If it does not interest you, you do not have to read. While it does get constant airtime, it is something that is on the minds of individuals who come here. While I think most people focus on the external aspect of this proposed method for attraction, I believe it is the internal sense of who one is that is more perceived by the general (incl. NT) public. Some people live their lives in a facade, pretending to be something they aren't in the belief that the artifice is more attractive than the foundation provides. Is it a surprise that those on the spectrum, often lacking intuitive and instinctual reactions, would then resort to an analytic approach - one that, despite my aversion, will often will make use of generalizations in the process of reduction? These caricatured stereotypes are often what are most easily related to, most readily aped, most capably ingrained despite their ineffective nature. The entire premise is a gross over-simplification that takes a single aspect of attraction and warps it out of context. While it is still a poor representation, I might sum it thus: a portion of attraction is not based on niceness or being jerk, but on one's ability not to apologize for being true to one's self. There is no one-size-fits-all answer, no universal solution - but there has to be a starting point, and if one person does something differently as a result of each of these conversations, then they have been productive.


M.

Some women out there like nice guys. But you'll find they're much more rare. Very very rare in fact. If you can find one, hold onto her for dear life! You deserve to be happy, be yourself...

That it true. I don't loose sleep over it to be honest, however it does flood out otherwise good topics. I actually know for a fact that some women have been put off posting here, because of the number of passive aggressive posts. That is a good lesson right there. Don’t think that being jerk is some walk in the park and you can just spout thinly veiled insults, and expect women to flock around you. It might be much more to do with jerks actually doing their own thing and being secure, which they haven’t got exclusive rights to. I don’t buy this jerk exclusivity because some men and women are very needy indeed. This isn’t everyone, certainly not me but it is a spectrum and there is a balance to be made.

I think the analysis is pretty base level, shoddy logic based on ‘evidence’ that is already tainted by the behaviour of others, which they aren't necessarily conscious of in the first place. In other words you might call this nice guy/jerks thing a game that some people might play, but you still need social skills to play it. This analysis doesn’t past the very simplest form of logic; there are no logic layers or degrees of certainly, etc. It is very much focused on mind's eye and hearsay, which is something you need to conscious of when making logical deductions.

The key thing we are clearly missing are some inherent social skills that might be useful in finding a mate, though if you read this forum it is clear we are not all missing the same things. But most of have some problem in this general area. The nice guys/jerk issue doesn't hold many clues to that at all, it is way too vague and broad and area in my opinion

Going back to the original question, who actually thinks they are such a nice guy and why? Many people want something like companionship, or a mate, or sexual gratification. Nothing about behaviour is completely selfless. You might get a good feeling out of doing good deeds, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. So people will find this appealing some people will not. There is no exclusivity on what accounts for a good dead either. There was a recent study that looked at brain activity of those who like give a lot to charity. It showed that similar parts of the brain lit up to when people are amorous, having sex, or addicted to gambling so forth. In other words the pleasure centres of the brain.

Hell yes. It just keeps coming back, this topic. My thoughts on the matter haven't changed, all the people who whine about women not wanting them for being 'nice guys' are almost invariably wusses without the resolve to court a woman in a way that actually expresses his interest in her; are non risk-taking people in the worst way possible in that they are just plain dull people; or they don't seem to recognise their own ways of discriminating women or worse, they don't recognise that women are people too, with their own right to choose their mates.

There is a difference betwen being nice and being a pushover... actually I really don't the word 'nice', especially in this context. It has so many different meanings and seems to be used for everything:

difficult to please; fastidious; refined
delicate; precise; discriminative;
calling for great care, accuracy, tact, etc.
agreeable; pleasant; delightful
attractive; pretty
courteous and considerate
conforming to approved social standards; respectable
in good taste
good; excellent

To me it always makes me think of the sort of person who will bend and twist to make them seem more attractive to others, and to me that just isn't attractive. Sometimes it's better to have someone who will just honestly be themselves and if that makes them a jerk then I guess I like jerks.

Long-term reader, first-time poster

From a female POV, I've noticed the term "nice guy" is often a generic catch-all term when you don't have any thing else to say about a guy. It means he is a decent guy but there's nothing special about him, you don't really have a strong opinion on him either way. You don't know what to say so you just say he's "nice".

May be that's the problem with why "nice" guys don't score. It's not because they don't act like a jerk, it's because they don't make themselves stand out in any way in the girl's mind. It's not them being supportive and non-cocky that is the problem, the problem is they are bland. Most people in the world, male or female, are "nice". Unless you are living/working in a totally dysfunctional environment. It's how the human species manages to get along in groups in small crowded environments after all.

For example I became interested in a guy. But I didn't even notice him until he walked past me one day and winked at me. Sure he's "nice" but so is practically every other guy in the world. And he's really quiet and reserved. But that wink was a wake-up call of hey he's interested in me and did something that made my heart give a little leap and from then on I started thinking of him as a potential romantic partner. Perhaps the reason why jerks get more girls is not because they are jerks but because they have the confidence/nature to be willing to do something like that. A lot of the "nice" guys complaining that they can't get girls probably aren't able to approach girls in that flirtatious way.

Sure it's risky to put yourself out there, but that's part of the reason why flirting was developed. It is a generally low-risk way to gauge interest (well lower risk than making a massive declaration of your undying love). If you are rejected you can always try to laugh it off as a misunderstanding/joke.

It's not entirely low risk for the girl either. Flirting is freaking annoying because it's so ambiguous. The girl could very well be mistaken in the guy's intentions (especially the seriousness). This is a common element of discussion and concern amongst girls. "Wait, if he did X and Y does this mean Z or I am just imagining it?" This guy and I are still in the circling around each other trying to gauge each other flirting stage. I have enough trouble reading body language as it is (I didn't even realize he was flirting with me until I thought about it, did research, thought about it a bit more and then realized...). The key for me is in the past I wouldn't have had the confidence to respond to his flirting, but now I am trying. Thank god for the internet and guides to body language I could be completely wrong about his intentions, but that's a risk I feel now that I am willing to take.

So I think the summary is: be a nice guy (i.e. be yourself) but learn how to flirt.

I think for many of us trying to flirt is like a blind guy trying to paint -- it's hard to do something when you can't see it. I know one of my big worries is I simply can't see the boundary between flirting and being creepy or harassing, because I can't even tell when someone is flirting back unless they're REALLY obvious about it.

I wish there was some way to get training or practice on such things in a controlled environment, but I've noticed that once you get to my age there is a distinct lack of support programs available. Everything is aimed at the "young adults" crowd which they seem to define as roughly 18-25.

So, yes, for the most part, I have just learned to accept the situation.

Well, speaking from personal experience, us aspie guys don't always KNOW you're interested, unless you come right out and say it. I seem to go from not being able to notice anything to thinking every girl behind the cash register is flirting with me...can't seem to get the hang of it.

Hey, I'm all crap all bad at flirting too. Actually body language alone is a big mystery to me, but I'm approaching it as a technical problem. I figure if I don't have it naturally I'm going to just have to learn using the one asset I do have - my brain. I'm hoping that eventually with enough practice it will be like playing a musical instrument, the basics you don't need to think about too much because you've done it enough times. And hey it seems to be working so far *touch on wood*. I don't think I've done that badly...

I've tried but by nature I over-analyze EVERYTHING I do, which doesn't leave a lot of "processor power" for things like maintaining a conversation. In social situations with unfamiliar people I tend to just stay quiet because of it.

I have learned the niceness thing has little to do with things
its confidence-girls don't want a sad, depressed guy all the time
I have tried in the past (not much)
but it never went past friends
BUT I got that far, which means I am not as stupid or repulsive as I think I am
I just never got the guts to ask her out (or she had a bf)
I know if I ever get in that position again, I'll ask her out
most just don't go for that final push
yeah rejection hurts
but the what ifs, hurt alot more

No, no, no, no, no, and no! Stop acting like a nice guy. You can be a nice guy all you want, just don't act like one when meeting girls. Being a nice guy is great for a relationship, just not for meeting girls.

That's dead right. Assuming that you don't want a relationship.

Seriously. Why would you want a girl who didn't like nice guys? Just to impress your mates? Notches on the bedpost?