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The reason why LJBF hurts

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hyperlexian
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03 May 2012, 2:58 pm

Roman wrote:
smudge wrote:
I'll just say, the man I've wanted to be with the most, saw me as a friend first. This is exactly why I like him so much. This thing of either "all or nothing" is very unattractive, because it's asking for too much all at once. Women want a stable relationship - one that lasts, and one that takes time to build. In order to build strong foundations for a decent relationship, you need true friendship underlying it.

I don't want to go out with someone if I know as soon as we split up, then there would be no more communication. Say if I wanted children - it would put me off if I knew the guy I was in a relationship with, was just going to vanish because that was all he wanted to know me for.


If that was the case, this would actually make a lot more sense than the "system" that we are "ran by" today. Unfortunately what you said above is not how most women operate. Most women believe they have to decide right on the first date whether the guy is a friend or a relationship material (after all we all know that if we don't do well on first date we don't get a second date). And this is part of what I find insulting -- how can they possibly make life long decision within just one day? Yet they do. So, as shallow as that game is, if they are to play that game, at least I don't want to always be on a "losing side" of that game. So if I keep facing "life long decisions" that I would "never" date them because I didn't hit it off on day 1, then I want to at least be on the opposite side and DO well on day 1 once in a while.

this isn't actually true. people change their minds all the time. i saw a statistic that showed women are more likely to date a man after 1 year of friendship than right away upon meeting, and even MORE likely to date them after 5 years of friendship. and these are men that the women didn't consider to be dateable at first.

EDIT: it should be noted that the study looked at how often people dated after years of FRIENDSHIP.


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Last edited by hyperlexian on 03 May 2012, 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JanuaryMan
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03 May 2012, 2:59 pm

Well, the borg don't have to worry about dating. They are somewhat symbiotic in the collective.
But seeing as this isn't the future, and this isn't Star Trek, and we are all individuals I think we have to respect the rights of individuals and in the dating game it's every person for themselves. Let's Just Be Friends while it isn't the welcome response, it's one that has to be taken with a pinch of salt and you either move on or become the person's friend (not a choice I'd make).



hyperlexian
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03 May 2012, 2:59 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
KenM wrote:
Ancalagon wrote:
LJBF is a canned phrase meaning "No thank you". It isn't meant literally any more than the answer to the question "What's up?" is "The sky".


Well forgive me if I think when someone tells me they want to be friends that they really mean it. I have AS so I can't read into what it really meant. If proper just said "not interested" it would be much easier. But people don't want to feel bad so they say LJBF.

Canned phrases can have different meanings than what they would mean if we took each word separately. LJBF is not the only such phrase. LJBF just means "no, but please don't be pissed".

sometimes it actually means that people want to be friends.


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03 May 2012, 3:02 pm

Boxman108 wrote:
I'm surprised Dogswithouthorses hasn't been warned yet. There's no reason for flaming.

if you think there is a rule violation, report it to a moderator (best if it is another moderator besides me as i am active in this thread)


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03 May 2012, 3:40 pm

beezy wrote:
With DogsWithoutHorses (sorry) yes. I'm touchy about the accusation 'misogynist' being used lightly, and it was just an impulsive response. Haven't got much else to say. I agree you you re: the op btw. It can be surprising how friendships endure.. the intensity of romance gives the impression it's worth more I suppose.


I always find it kind of amusing when people are more concerned about being called an "ist" then they are about avoiding behavior and speech that is "ist".
Like somehow being labeled oppressive is worse than being oppressed.
I usually assign the label to specific behaviors, speech, and assumptions though instead of individuals because most people in my experience really don't mean it "that way".

Boxman108 wrote:
I'm surprised Dogswithouthorses hasn't been warned yet. There's no reason for flaming.


Disagreeing isn't flaming. If you were really concerned about the rules I'd think you would have followed the rules for dealing with that instead of posting. It seems like you just disagree with me and are using a silencing tactic. If can't argue content argue tone?


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03 May 2012, 4:00 pm

I warn you DogsWithoutHorses, I warn you.


Happy now Boxman?



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03 May 2012, 4:03 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I warn you DogsWithoutHorses, I warn you.


Happy now Boxman?


I am warned, thanks Boo, I needed that


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03 May 2012, 4:09 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Ancalagon wrote:
KenM wrote:
For me, the reason LJBF hurts is 95% of the time someone said that to me, they did not really mean it. They said it to let me down easy. This hurt me more because they were not honest.

LJBF is a canned phrase meaning "No thank you". It isn't meant literally any more than the answer to the question "What's up?" is "The sky".


Saying "let's just be friends" if you don't want to be friends, can be compared to when parents tell their seven year old son that Derp the rabbit went to live on a farm or is on a ski resort for bunnies, when he was actually eaten by Al, the neighbor cat.

but if someone intends to share an emotional exchange with you, they DO want to be friends.

somehow, in this thread you have said that:

1. when women say LJBF they DON'T want to be friends
2. when women say LJBF they want to rely on you emotionally, as friends DO

you can't have it both ways, as the two situations are mutually exclusive. it's almost like you are manipulating your statements to paint women in a negative light, even when it makes no logical sense.


If they just dump their problems onto me, without ever talking about interests or want to hang out, they're not interested in my friendship. I'm not painting all women in a bad light, but I paint manipulative women in a bad light.

and again, the point is that most women are not like that. the majority of women are not manipulative, just like the majority of men are not.


I didn't say they were. However, let's say I go on two dates from the internet, get laid on the second one and the all of suddenly, a few hours later the chick suggests to be "just friends" on the phone. Since I didn't even know her from before, I should be allowed to turn her offer down without being the bad guy here.

Furthermore, most people who attempt to play mind games and use failed dates with strangers to "make friends" are manipulative.



Last edited by Kurgan on 03 May 2012, 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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03 May 2012, 4:10 pm

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I warn you DogsWithoutHorses, I warn you.


Happy now Boxman?


I am warned, thanks Boo, I needed that


You're welcome, just call me whenever you want to be warned.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 04 May 2012, 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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03 May 2012, 7:43 pm

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
There is no system! There is no conspiracy, there is no borg. There's only individuals and you.
You say you're consistently rejected, you know what the only common factor in those instances is? You.
You don't know what "most women" do or think, you can only speak to your own experience unless you have citations.
Guess what? Everyone does have the right to decide who they will date and who they want to be friends with, however quickly they want to and based on whatever personal criteria is important to them. They can make their decisions however they want, no one is owed any set number of interactions to convince someone to be with them. You aren't entitled to a chance with anyone.
No one has to justify their dating choices, no woman has to have a good enough reason to reject you.
Having standards is not a game.
Why don't you focus less on blaming women for not bestowing status upon you with their affection and more time working on becoming someone people want to date.
If you aren't a good potential mate people aren't going to want relationships with you and that's not their fault.


I suppose the blind only see what they want to see. :roll: Just because it's not littered with swearing doesn't mean it's not insulting. I don't understand why a member filled with this kind of immature hostility is allowed to post here.


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03 May 2012, 8:04 pm

Boxman108 wrote:
Just because it's not littered with swearing doesn't mean it's not insulting.


I didn't see any put-down of any sort there - you might not like what was said, it might be uncomfortable to accept, but that's not the same as being insulted. It looks to me like just a brutal level of honesty, which is something that's damn hard to get most of the time.



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03 May 2012, 8:18 pm

awesome, let's refocus


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Last edited by DogsWithoutHorses on 03 May 2012, 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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03 May 2012, 8:22 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Or people could say what they mean and mean what they say.
Too difficult, I suppose.

They do. Phrases can have specific meanings, just like words. The phrase we're discussing has a specific meaning assigned to it. Unless you don't know the definition of it, there isn't a problem.

Quote:
I had no idea other people's bodily functions required me to say anything at all to be "polite".

I'm not advocating that as a requirement of politeness, just noting that some people treat it as one. (I find it kind of annoying, personally.)


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hyperlexian
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03 May 2012, 8:58 pm

Kurgan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Ancalagon wrote:
KenM wrote:
For me, the reason LJBF hurts is 95% of the time someone said that to me, they did not really mean it. They said it to let me down easy. This hurt me more because they were not honest.

LJBF is a canned phrase meaning "No thank you". It isn't meant literally any more than the answer to the question "What's up?" is "The sky".


Saying "let's just be friends" if you don't want to be friends, can be compared to when parents tell their seven year old son that Derp the rabbit went to live on a farm or is on a ski resort for bunnies, when he was actually eaten by Al, the neighbor cat.

but if someone intends to share an emotional exchange with you, they DO want to be friends.

somehow, in this thread you have said that:

1. when women say LJBF they DON'T want to be friends
2. when women say LJBF they want to rely on you emotionally, as friends DO

you can't have it both ways, as the two situations are mutually exclusive. it's almost like you are manipulating your statements to paint women in a negative light, even when it makes no logical sense.


If they just dump their problems onto me, without ever talking about interests or want to hang out, they're not interested in my friendship. I'm not painting all women in a bad light, but I paint manipulative women in a bad light.

and again, the point is that most women are not like that. the majority of women are not manipulative, just like the majority of men are not.


I didn't say they were. However, let's say I go on two dates from the internet, get laid on the second one and the all of suddenly, a few hours later the chick suggests to be "just friends" on the phone. Since I didn't even know her from before, I should be allowed to turn her offer down without being the bad guy here.

Furthermore, most people who attempt to play mind games and use failed dates with strangers to "make friends" are manipulative.

i've never heard of someone dating just to add to their friend pool, so i am sure it is not something you really need to worry about.

of course you are not obligated to be friends with anyone ever. i don't really understand why you would already decide not to be friends right at the outset, though. after all, she wouldn't have done anything manipulative to you at that point and you were not used as any sort of emotional tampon or anything. if she was worth dating she would surely be worth a friendship. then if it goes south or she turns out to be manipulative, you don't have to stay friends with her. i don't really get why a person would turn don a potential friend.


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hyperlexian
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03 May 2012, 8:59 pm

Boxman108 wrote:
DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
There is no system! There is no conspiracy, there is no borg. There's only individuals and you.
You say you're consistently rejected, you know what the only common factor in those instances is? You.
You don't know what "most women" do or think, you can only speak to your own experience unless you have citations.
Guess what? Everyone does have the right to decide who they will date and who they want to be friends with, however quickly they want to and based on whatever personal criteria is important to them. They can make their decisions however they want, no one is owed any set number of interactions to convince someone to be with them. You aren't entitled to a chance with anyone.
No one has to justify their dating choices, no woman has to have a good enough reason to reject you.
Having standards is not a game.
Why don't you focus less on blaming women for not bestowing status upon you with their affection and more time working on becoming someone people want to date.
If you aren't a good potential mate people aren't going to want relationships with you and that's not their fault.


I suppose the blind only see what they want to see. :roll: Just because it's not littered with swearing doesn't mean it's not insulting. I don't understand why a member filled with this kind of immature hostility is allowed to post here.

you know the official procedure for complaints, and this is not it. please allow the thread to go back on track.


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03 May 2012, 10:55 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
of course you are not obligated to be friends with anyone ever. i don't really understand why you would already decide not to be friends right at the outset, though. after all, she wouldn't have done anything manipulative to you at that point and you were not used as any sort of emotional tampon or anything. if she was worth dating she would surely be worth a friendship. then if it goes south or she turns out to be manipulative, you don't have to stay friends with her. i don't really get why a person would turn don a potential friend.


What you have said, with the word "friendship" replaced with "dating", is exactly what my grievance is. How do girls know that I am not a good dating material if they never dated me (yes, most of the time they don't even consider the FIRST date). And in few cases that they did have first date with me, how do they know the relationship won't go better once they know me well? In other words, why not try to get to know me well (which takes several weeks, not one date) BEFORE making up their mind whether they want to date me or not? Why make a decision right away?