Sexism on L&D

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Did this INTP make a joke?

Good God. Let the idiots be idiots and say what they want and just eat them alive when they do and that's how they will learn! Can we all STOP being so freaking sensitive about something that a stranger types over the internet and has no impact on your life?

I agree there's no call for anyone to overreact. I try to gently point out that whoever has made these replies to me is not inside my head and therefore has no right to assume they know what I think better than I know what I think. The gentle "corrections" seem to have little to no effect, so I can understand why some members here get frustrated almost to the point of verbal violence.

Something we Aspies all seem to have in common is feeling (and often actually BEING) misunderstood. I just wish people could leave their egos at the door and deal with the concepts rather than their personal feelings. There are some very insightful conversations that happen here, and while I enjoy reading them, I'm mostly put off at the idea of offering my $.02 in fear of getting told - yet again - that I have no idea what I really think. Enough of that and I may snap, too, and become verbally abusive.

LOL!

Why do you even bother participating in the conversation if it's such a problem for you? No one forces you to look at these threads. You can do/believe what you want, let others do the same without jumping all over them and telling them they're being 'too sensitive', unless you consider yourself some kind of authority on what is too sensitive/not sensitive.

CLEARLY it impacts people's lives or this discussion wouldn't have been going on for as long as it has, on as many threads as it has, so stop trying to tell other people what has an impact on their life and what doesn't.

If it doesn't impact you, then that's great. Good for you!

I've encountered the same addressed towards men, but it's overlooked as sexism. "Men can't possibly pick up on non-verbal signals from women, because it's well known how dense they are!"

how is this not an example? the OP is talking about how she feels her ability to express herself here is limited because she is afraid of saying something that will set off one of the posters she has witnessed making hateful comments about women and cause them to attack her for 10 pages until a thread gets locked instead of being able to rationally exchange ideas with people which is supposed to be what fora are about--that, and support, community. can you understand how if affects one's ability to feel like an accepted part of a community when one hears people in said community making hateful statements directed at anyone in the category of people that you belong to, like all the members of the same gender as you, for example? before you even have a chance to say anything you feel less valued, less welcome, less human. why are you supporting that kind of climate of discussion, how is allowing hurtful dehumanising discussion (not venting about personal experience with individuals, i have no problem with people discussing their own experience with the people they have known--they are easily discerned between, that and hurtful generalisations about all/most women) ultimately helpful to anyone, including the guys who genuinely enjoy the company of women and would really like to learn how to welcome more women into their lives socially, including here on wrongplanet? find some compassion in your heart and listen to what these women are saying: don't just read the words but try as much as you can to put yourself in their shoes; assume that what they are stating of their own experience is correct--just consider it for a moment--and if so, how would you feel if you experienced what they are describing, can you understand where they are coming from, etc; please put aside whatever personal dislike you may have of me or my opinions and just open yourself to listening to the words of other women who are trying to convey something of their experience to you very genuinely and not from any place of "agenda" other than the agenda of wishing to be treated like a human being, with a modicum of respect and dignity. please try to do this, not for me or for anyone else but for your own sake. i think you may find yourself enriched by the process if you are willing to put the effort in.

this is just my opinion on the OP, i will have more to say on further posts in that thread as i reread further (this will take many hours, likely days, as hunting down the examples and reading through them originally did, which was why i was originally reluctant to go through the exhaustive process again.). however, you said you wanted me to account for my examples thoroughly. be careful what you wish for.

No, it does NOT have impact on their lives. They read it, they disagree with it and don't like it so they want it banned. If their boss, their landlord, someone in authority over them and who could actually effect their lives by having a stupid opinion was going around saying it then the opinion WOULD effect their life. Reading something you don't like DOES NOT EFFECT YOUR LIFE! It may temporarily effect your emotions. I disliked the last Dominick Dunne book that I read but it didn't effect my life.

If a person can get so emotional over a strangers post on the internet that it does effect their life then they have bigger problems than whether or not the stranger is sexist, racist, homophobic or whatever. And yes, we all have AS but AS doesn't make idiotic opinions from others that we happen to read just ruin our whole lives!

Actual sexism used to have a HUGE impact on women's lives. Know what impact it had? It made it hard to impossible for women to find decent paying jobs. It made it impossible for them to stand up to bosses who wanted to just sleep with them and keep their jobs when they said no to him. It made it impossible to not have a child conceived through rape or because you'd lose your job if you said no to your boss. It made it almost impossible to get in certain schools and fields of work. It made it almost impossible to lead an independent life and support yourself and make your own decisions without sanction from a husband or father. That is how sexism impacts your life. Some doofus saying "Women always want jocks who mistreat them" DOES NOT IMPACT ANYONES ACTUAL LIFE. It might stir an emotion (or pity or even laughter at the dude) for a MOMENT until they go on to read the next thing, but it does NOT impact someone's actual life.

Grow up and understand that some people will always hate groups of people based on stupid things. They are allowed to think that. They are allowed to say that. They are allowed to base their own life choices based on that s**t even. They are not allowed to limit or hurt others based on it though. We don't have to like it but that's how the world works.

Really, in their heads, those women hating/deprived guys are just feeling that their points are being validated because they aren't whatever kind of guy they think women want.

You get rid of those kinds of opinions by showing someone where and how they are wrong and giving them examples. It doesn't work with everybody, obviously. However telling them to shut up and banning them does nothing more to stamp out some perceived sexism than deciding to treat your child's fever by not taking his temperature does. Show them whats wrong and help them fix it.

Unless my differing opinion has somehow or other negatively impacted your life then. In that case, ban this opinion too.

You're right, Olive Oil....much of the "misogyny" has been of the "doofus" variety. What these guys say (e.g., "Women only like jerky men") is so absurd that it should be dismissed, rather than addressed. My reaction to this sort of statement is that, perhaps, the guy's trying to be a troll. It's certainly not anything to take really seriously. I advocated ignoring these sorts of statements because I advocate "not feeding a troll." These guys aren't the sharpest tool in the shed; those guys were "validated" in a sense when they were labeled "misogynists"; they got the attention they desired.

Right. They are also obviously never going to have any power over any female so who cares what they think?

I believe, if there is true misogyny, or any other "mis," that it should be moderated, and dealt with swiftly, in a similar matter as that which occurs with statements against one's race, ethnicity, disability status, etc.

I still don't believe WrongPlanet is buzzing with misogynists; it's buzzing with lonely people, though.

Exactly. The main two girls pushing this seem to go way overboard on what things actually are. I just read a thread where they equated a blundered kiss on the lips between friends to rape. So yeah.

Consider the source.

Kraftie and OOM ; YES to what both of you are saying.

You do realize that libertarianism is not monolithic, right? And that it's not anarchy, or the refusal to use any state resources ever? Or perhaps, most importantly here, that I only personally use the label because it's the closest commonly understood shorthand for my beliefs, but an imperfect one? Further, my belief in free speech is hardly abstract, it has very concrete principals such as prohibitions on libel and slander and true threats, while allowing for fairly unlimited dialogue outside of those narrow areas, which is at least in principle the law of the land for most of the US, which I believe qualifies as a physical location, on Earth even. Contrast that to your conception of limiting speech, which is mostly constrained to university campuses...



What does Ayn Rand have to do with anything here? I'm not even a fan, I consider her work heavy handed and her philosophy faulty, I only even brought her up in a completely unrelated PPR thread because I thought it was funny that a left leaning poster was unwittingly agreeing with her.

1. I never claimed any such right.

2. What rights does Tarantella have on this forum? Does she have any more ownership of the forum than anyone other than Alex? That seems to be your clear implication.

Meanwhile....back at the ranch.....