NT woman at her wit's end with her male Aspie friend

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I've been gone for a while, but wanted to come back to update, and of course, see if I can seek more advice.

We've been spending a lot of time together and we're enjoying it however problems have arisen over disagreements/ conflict. For example, one night when he was overtired he snapped at me, which he had never done before and we were in public and that made it particularly hurtful. I walked out of the place but he followed. I told him it bothered me and he replied, looking away, that he was very tired. There was no apology. A few days later I asked for one but didn't get it then either. At that time he was quite frustrated with me for still being bothered by it.

He gets so defensive so quickly that it seems impossible to discuss any conflict that may arise. He's said he'd like me to tell him if I dislike something but no matter how I bring it up, carefully or bluntly, he gets visibly upset and calls what I'm doing criticism and wow, does the thought of criticism bother him. It seems no criticism is acceptable. To make it worse, he likes debate and argument and winning. He gets so caught up in making a point that he'll say anything to "win."

We've made it this far but as we all know, if a couple can't resolve conflict in a positive way, there can't be a good relationship. How can we approach this? Is there an AS connection?

I want to point out that he's made many changes in his behavior toward me. There's none of the crap I described back in January when I first posted about him. He tries very, very hard to treat me well and communicate. For example, while saying that he was very tired after I said I was hurt by his snapping at me isn't exactly an apology, it's an explanation which is not something he gives to most (maybe any) people, and it wasn't something he offered me until these past few months. I have no doubt whatsoever that he cares a great deal for me.

What is it you hope to gain here? Even if he does like you, and even if he has AS, are you prepared to put up with this type of person in a dating capacity? I don't think i'd go anywhere near dating someone I find to have narcisstic behavior and who has been rude to me.

I have to ask what you really are seeeking from us. Affirmation that he has AS and that he really does like you? We can't give you that. I am not even sure if he likes you more than a friend. I would say there would likely be far more signs than what you have shared if he did. And if he does like you and can't treat you anymore respectfully than what he has i'd suggest running far far away from this one.

I wouldn't recommend pursuing him for more than friendship.

He apologized for those behaviours without any prodding from me. That's why I came back.



I'm looking for suggestions as to how to handle conflict when it arises. We've cleared a lot of hurdles, with a lot of work, so perhaps there's a way to deal with this too?

I think to him they aren't conflicts like they are to you (and the NT mind in general). I think he thinks you take things too seriously. I'm not saying you are, just saying that in his mind it might appear that you're making something out of nothing and that it's exhausting to him just as his behavior is exhausting to you. At least that's been my experience...

We seem to be doing OK on this. He spends a lot of time with me, usually weekends and some weeknights which would be draining for any of us but I'm sure it takes a lot of energy out of him. If he says something like, "I'm tired," then I know he's reached his limit and we either move on to another topic or change the activity.

It just seems a lot of excuses is made for his behavior - behavior that isn't really excusable and that you can't really just blame on AS. I know men and women with AS who are not so narcisstic or rude.

Apologizing is fine, but when someone continues to display the same behaviors apologies don't always cut it.

ToadofSteel wrote:

Each time I've pointed out what hurt me he hasn't repeated it. He's never liked that I bring up what I dislike because he seems to take "criticism" too personally but if there's a subject or topic that upsets me, he has so far respected the fact I don't like it and has never repeated an action or revisited a topic I'm uncomfortable with.

You should bring that up some time as well... if he's making an effort to avoid upsetting you and you recognize that, you should offer your appreciation for it... there are plenty of men, in both the AS and NT realms, that don't try to change for their women...

By the same token, ask him if there's anything you do that seems upsetting to him... try to meet him halfway, as it were...

Can you see yourself happily dating this man if he does have romantic interest in you? I guess I am asking this because it seems more than just AS that might be his issue. Some people are just emotionally unavailable for a variety of reasons and I am not sure AS can be blamed 100%.

I am not certain on this - do you want to just maintain a strong friendship or are you hoping this will lead to dating>? Maybe you just want friendship and if so my post might be moot, but i think you are looking for more.

I am dating a man with AS and i can't say that AS necessarily means a person will need to run away to deal wtih conflict or that they are not very warm or loving. My b/f is extremely attentive and loving, he simply just has problems socially sometimes, very socially awkward, can blurt things out that enters his mind and that most people would easily be able to repress and he has difficulty handling my emotions as to him i must seem like an emotional rollercoaster at times when he is more factual (even tho i really am NOT that emotional, it just seems that way to someone with AS). so i am not really sure that the things that are going on with him are JUST the AS and perhaps he also has had some other difficulties or personality issues that are complicating this even more.

I think that six months would be enough time for a man attracted to and interested in a woman to make some signs that he likes her. I do know that this isn't as easy for people with AS but you have to take AS out of the equation for a moment - does he possess the traits that you can see yourself being happy with even if he were to express romantic interest and ask you on a 'real' date? Because AS or not at the end of the day you have to be compatible to the person you are seeing. We all have to bend and compromise...lord knows I do with my AS partner, but the core person that he is internally matches who i am in a compatible manner. All AS folks are not painted from the same brush...some are more shy and w/drawn than others, some are less inclined to be loving and affectionate, etc. You can't say that what one AS person possesses as personality traits are going to be possessed by everyone with AS because they are born with certain personality traits that are unique just like an NT person. Therefore at the end of the day you just have to ask yourself if this man, AS or not, is someone you really feel you could be happy with dating if he were to show you this type of interest.

I think it is easy to have an attraction for someone and get caught up in trying to diagnose them and figure out what makes them tick but even when we accomplish this it still won't make them compatible to us if the personalities are just not harmonious.

Maybe all of these ramblings of mine are off the mark...just trying to offer a little bit of insight. If it helps.

I agree with you, I will tell him that I've noticed and appreciate it next time I see him.

I did recently ask what I do that he may find upsetting but, at the time, I think he was already exhausted and just couldn't describe it so he said he'd like to drop it which is what we did.

Also, he's teaching me some tech related stuff which I've always been interested in but never really explored. At times I struggle with it because it is so different than what I know but he's encouraged me by saying he likes that I'm trying and reminds me that I'm using a different part of my brain and should not be hard on myself.

I think I neglected to mention a few key points in my recent posts: we are romantically involved now. We go on dates, spend weeknights and weekends together and so on. He's very affectionate and loving. He tries to include me in his social life (such as it is) and frequently brings up subjects or events that he thinks will be of interest to me.

While I'm enjoying what we have, I do not know if this can be long term or not. I don't know how far either of us can go. The only reason I allowed the next step to occur was because I knew that I was curious but not interested in say, a relationship that could lead to marriage. I'm not putting other good men on the back burner for a guy who may well not be able to meet me halfway.

He doesn't take close relationships lightly nor does he invest any energy in anything or anybody he doesn't wish to. I will admit that I like this.




I am open to the suggestion that something else may be going on with him. I began posting here because he at least has several traits of AS and I wanted to see if it was possible to learn new ways to communicate and see if our friendship could be salvaged. From using the advice I got here in Jan and Feb. I think things have gone well. He has responded positively to my new ways of communicating.



If you, or any NT in a relationship with an Aspie can elaborate or explain how this is handled, I'd appreciate the insight.



I think we are compatible and have always felt we were, whether as friends or as lovers. Despite the many, many bumps in the road, we really did just click the first time we met. While our minds work differently, we frequently come to the same conclusions about many subjects, share several common interests, etc.

I appreciate your attempts to offer insight and your point about excusing his past behavior is not lost on me. It's hard to get perspective on these things while right in the midst of them so constructive criticism is welcome. This is why I'm here.

Your last post provides a great deal more clarity.

As for this:

Quote by JennaJ:

he has difficulty handling my emotions as to him i must seem like an emotional rollercoaster at times when he is more factual (even tho i really am NOT that emotional, it just seems that way to someone with AS).

[b]Quote by RecentlyBookmarked:[/b]
If you, or any NT in a relationship with an Aspie can elaborate or explain how this is handled, I'd appreciate the insight.


I can only suggest to you patience on both parts. If both of you are not patient with the other, it won't work. You have to arrive at the understanding that your moods do not predict who you are as people. I often made the mistake early on of thinking that my b/fs behaviors or mood shifts were representing some ulterior motive that he wasn't 'feeling' the relationship or that his feelings had changed. I was used to that out of prior relationships with NT men. They would be uspet over something I did or said and get moody or pull back emotionally and i'd have to drag what was wrong out of them. My current b/f made it clear that i should never worry with that about him and that he just didn't have the ability to hide his emotions. If he was not feeling in love or happy anymore he would say it becuase he can't be 'coy' or play those kinds of games. All i could do was trust him. He also assured me that even tho I had problems with being able to trust men in the past that everything he does when we are not together he always has our relationship's best interests at heart.

If your top needs are being met then the 'small stuff' that isn't really congruent with what you hoped for can be more easily overlooked. Realizing what is the most important and compromising on the less necessary needs are going to be critical in any relationship but especially an NT/AS one. I used to get embarrassed in public when he would say things that seemed odd for a person to say but then over time i realized why should i be embarrassed? he is who he is and if people have a problem with him that is their issue, not ours. He tries very hard so it isn't like he does things intentionally to be callous. If i worked hard to change this almost childlike innocence about him that would mean that some of the things i adore about him would also likely change - that being his absolute loyalty to the people he loves. I have never met someone more loyal to the people in his life that he cares about.

I was under the impression I'd already posted about our changed status but after your replies I read back over the thread and saw I had not.



As anybody can see from this thread, I'm patient. I think he is too but either isn't aware of his feelings or motives until they get the best of him. There have been some incidents where, in retrospect, he probably should have excused himself from the situation much earlier to avoid overstimulation.



This makes so much sense. I knew this when we were friends but admit I can lose perspective now that we are closer.




Thanks. Obviously I'm not sure yet if this can happen in my case, but we'll see.



Ditto for me.

I'm glad you're still hanging in there, and making progress.
I have to ask, how do you define an apology? Is it simply that it needs to contain the word "sorry" (or similar) or is it something more? The reason I ask is becouse I immediatly recogized it as an apology.
1. He accknowledged that his behaviour was wrong and that it was his reaction, not you responce that was the cause.
2. He explained that it was not your fault and that he did not mean to react that way.
3. He presented the reason for the hurtfull reaction and by accknowledge it's existens and bad nature try to avoid it again in the future.

He might be like me, he don't allways notice when something is wrong (tired, hungry etc) and instead of realizing what it is that's bothering him he simply gets more and more irritated on whatever until he does something he normaly don't do. When it's happened the selfdiagnostic program kicks in and find tha cause for the unusual reaction.


I don't think this is a AS-trait, but still very common amongst Aspies (and other people) that has been hurt alot. You don't give anyone anything that can be used against you and you don't but yourself in any position where you're not equal or superior to others.

He feels like it's an attack against his person, and it is, whatever your intentions are.
He can respond in either of three ways:
1. He stand on the defencive, leaving you in the advantage. This is usualy bad since people tend to follow up and press their attacks to find you limit (or they get bored).
2. He makes a (to him) valid excuse, thus restoring balace between you.
3. He attacks you in a similar way, he's trying to regain the initiative.

To but it in an other way that might be more understandable: (Still the same senario as above.)
You say that he needs to change.
Possible responses:
1. He change becouse you tell him that you think he needs to change.
2. He has accepted your point and explained his view, time to evaluate the situation from these new facts. It might not result in a change, it depends on how much he value you opinion.
3. He basicly tells you that you opinion means nothing to him and the only thing that can change him is himself if he feels like it. This can however be a mask to hide that it's really a number two. It's usually shown if the changes happens anyway. A true number three will result in absolutly no change at all in most cases.
Hope it made some sense.

A good way to avoid a conflict is to not press back to his ground, from what you say I think he's making a number two, openly or masked, all he really need is your opinion and to still have both of you on (atleast) neutral territory. To just move halfway there add something like "just saying" or "so you know" in the end of the sentence. It shows that you have no interest in a conflict but you still have an opinion, very good for a smooth number two.


I'm glad to hear that. Keep up the good work both of you.

I thought it was his version of one for the reasons you mentioned but since I've been wary of doormat land, I want to make sure I don't make excuses for his behavior. Yes, to me the word "sorry" would help.



Yes, very similar. I've noticed he pushes himself and seems unaware of his limits until they are crossed and he's just too exhausted to handle any situation with grace. Hopefully we'll get to where he'll feel he can tell me before he's had too much. I'm getting better at sensing his limits and have made attempts to get myself out of the situation too.



This is him to a T. Nowadays I'm surprised to see this because I've known him so long I forgot about this mask but it is put on during arguments.



Glad you think they've been twos because I would interpret it that way too but definitely masked. With him the phrase, "Actions speak louder than words," could not be more true. He may not agree with me (and I don't need that) but he cares enough to listen and not repeat the action I said bothered me.


I'm glad to hear that. Keep up the good work both of you. [/quote]

Thanks!

Tell him that too? The only reason I say sorry to anyone is becouse it's a habit, like saying bless you when they sneeze, the real apology is that I admit that I did something wrong.


I allways try to challange myself to see the small signs myself before it happens and try to figure out what's wrong. Some fast energy (candy, fruit etc) might help in those situations, before they get out of hand.


It happens easely, but from our point of view it's unbelievebly hard to get rid of, I can't have any kind of joke-argumentation, it just don't work, I can't give an inch, even if I want to.


It's very hard to learn to stop arguing, especially when it feels like it's on your own expence. The trick is to learn how to push it back to neutral ground.


Allways happy when it works out for people, its a good substitute for a relationship of my own.