Can we just get rid of this forum?

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I wasn't trying to be insulting. Sorry if that's how it comes across. Sometimes I say the wrong thing - I am an unemployed, pill popping, never leave the basement mess after all.

I just wanted people to understand that berating the depressed isn't going to help them.

"Shame on you for feeling bad! You wanna cry - I'll give you something to cry about!" <--how the posts come across.

I also have to question how much mv "genuinely cares" when she writes things like, "Don't care. Disgusted and frustrated with people who won't even try. Done with this thread. "

I'm only posting to try and be helpful. I don't mean to cause strife!

You've got those glasses on again

For the naughty teacher look if I recall correctly your one yes ?

Despite all the damage they did I really admire such workers

Most of her post I've seen are about sex, so I can't really say. I don't care if you call it rubbish. She seemed that way to me, and I'm sticking by what I said.

Dude you're a lot like me whether you'd admit it or not. You hate yourself just as much and have more or less the same feelings. (depression, despair, loneliness, frustration, etc)

You vent on this site a lot about your hatred of yourself and the way others treat you. It's just on a lesser scale and not as "in your face" as when I do it. Even though you don't start threads (mostly) about it, you still do it.

Last edited by MR20 on 15 Dec 2011, 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Isn't it believed that aspergers is in part genetic? Doesn't this fact itself prove that people with aspergers can have relationships and children? If you believe its all down to genetics, I don't see how there could be any aspies left if we were all incapable of creating romatntic relationships.

A genetic trait that makes one incapable of reproducing wouldn't last very long...

i didn't ever say you should spend any time or money on anyone, but if you are going to try to speak for "nice guys" then make sure you are a good representative.

MR20, you don't have any sort of clue what mv is like, so keep your opinion to yourself. it is bordering on a personal insult and she does not deserve that. she has done nothing to you except try to help, and if you don't appreciate that, then walk away. i don't give a s**t if you want to hate on yourself, but don't even THINK about hating on her because she has EARNED a place of esteem here.

She has never offered me advice. She was mean and tried to talk down to me so I responded back strongly. I also do not know of this personal attack that you are talking about

Theres a big difference between you and me. And it goes like this. I dont come here and put others down for no reason behind their backs. Im all fine for self loaathing but i draw my line quite clear on taking it out on others

hyperlexian, thank you so much. Your words mean so very much to me.

{Sigh}. I'm sorry if my tone has upset or frightened you all. What upsets and frightens me is how willing some of you are to just give up, to never, ever take a stand for yourselves in a constructive way, to always expect to depend on someone else, despite having some marketable skills. (Yes, if you can type, you can have a job. That is reality.)

There are so many people in the world that are very more blessed than all of us. There are also so many people in this world who have it worse and will ALWAYS have it worse.

I'm not kidding about struggling with depression and anxiety my entire life. That's pre-puberty, even, and no one understood or was kind about it, not even once. I came from a family and a culture that believes that "strong" only means "hard". And I'm kind of glad because it FORCED me to learn vital survival skills.

Despite everything I've thrown at it (20 different failed drug regimens, countless years of failed talk and "systematic" therapies) I've finally come to understand that I will always be at least a little bit depressed and a little bit anxious. But I've also come to appreciate so much about what this life has to offer, and it's heartbreaking to see so many people throw it away.

I will *never* live up to my potential. Everyone I've gone to school with, everyone I've ever worked with has achieved more than I have, and with greater ease. I've been used and abused in several personal relationships, and each time it takes me longer and longer to recover.

BUT.

But, I've also achieved some wonderful things, things I really thought would always be outside the realm of my functioning (and mind you, I didn't have an autism context in which to understand my "different functioning" until about 2 years ago). I've now kept a job for about 10 years, one that's way below my mental ability but just right for my social functioning. I'm lucky to have it, especially in this economy. I will never be rich, I will strive to be comfortable, I will never be ambitious like all my peers. I will never have new stories to tell them.

I've had two children. Most of the time I feel as though I've bitten off more than I can chew, but that's a blessing, too, because it challenges me to reexamine everything all the time, to look for a better way to think about things and do things. I have to, because children are one of those nonnegotiable responsibilities.

I've made peace, for the most part, with my past and all the bewildering pain it contained. This has only been possible because of my willingness to NOT GIVE UP and to give a DIFFERENT WAY OF THINKING a chance.

Each one of you is someone's child. I worry about the future all the time, for the sake of my children. It's heartbreaking to me to think of the sadness and helplessness your parents must feel to see their children in so much pain and having so much difficulty functioning in society.

One final note: no one is ever going to fix your life. No one. It just plain won't happen. You are the only agent of your change, you are the only one who will ever have the power and the impetus to guide yourself. You can ask for help; you're very, very lucky to live in the age that we do. EVERYTHING is available at the touch of a finger, it seems.

I urge all of you to give a different way of thinking a chance. We're about to turn a new year. I have my list all written out in my head. How about you?

You seem to really think highly of this mv person. Can you please enlighten us as to why?

Also I don't know where I or MR20 insulted her. Can you please tell us what we did that was offensive?

Uh, why wow? Also I love the Soul Eater avatar dude, that's rad.

Sweetleaf, I wouldn't be so hard on yourself. First off, I've seen a lot of your posts and you seem very intelligent, well read, and to be honest, quite sweet. That's a good start to anything. Honestly, I don't think it has much to do with luck. This job I have now, first off, I only do it cause it pays well and I get a pension and am unionized, I've stayed at this job longer than any other (2.5 years) thing is though, due to my issues, I've been on leave of absences for about 11 months (6 months or so last year, and I'm currently off till the New Year since September, so 4 months), only reason I still have the job is it's union based. I lost all my vague friends and acquaintances because on Sept. 4th (My 25th Birthday) the assistant manager called me into his office and completely ripped me apart for taking a couple extra smoke breaks (My Grandfather had just passed and I've never had a death in the family), they had to call my dad in (He works in the same store) cause I had an anxiety attack so bad that they thought it was a heart attack, so they laid me on the floor in front of all my friends/co-workers and customers and I got carted off in an ambulance.

Seriously, I didn't want to go back. I grew up being bullied and publicly humiliated almost every day cause I was really overweight from some meds. The last thing I wanted to deal with was a manager who was a bully. I'm 6 feet tall and 225lbs of muscle, I got that jacked just so people wouldn't bully me, then this guy did and I couldn't deal. I thought about the whole situation, my apparent "friends" refusing to have anything to do with me after my incident, this boss who ripped me a new a**hole while everyone heard and threatened me to boot, and I came to the conclusion of, I want to move out and I want a new car and I can do that easier if I go back to this job, hard as it may be, and I figured, you know what, f**k that guy, and to hell with my pretend friends, I'll go back, do my job and go home, that's all.

Sorry this is so long, it's just my point is, luck is for other people, we have to put our hands down and sometimes walk through the s**t. I've just left so many jobs cause I couldn't deal, I left school cause I couldn't deal, I didn't leave my house for a year cause I just couldn't f*****g deal. So, I gave up on giving up and just decided, I'll work my ass off, and see where it gets me, and at this point I'm not an unemployed, pill popping, never leave the basement mess. I'm an employed, sometimes pill popping, don't let me near your weed, chain-smoking, live in the basement but pay rent mess, and that's good enough for me for right now f**k luck, just do what you can and hope it turns out in the end, and live by this, "It seemed like a good idea at the time".

Okay, I think I get it: be more positive. How exactly can we do that? If it were as simple as forcing ourselves to smile, or not say negative things then I've already tried it.

You should know that depression affects thinking tremendously, making control of thought patterns and emotions much more difficult. What are some literal, tangible things we can do to improve our attitudes?

This post is meant to be cordial and respectful in case any other intention was inferred.

Ah, see we are at a philosophical difference here. I believe in determinism: everything is cause and effect, including ourselves - meaning there is no free will.

So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.


MR20 put others down behind their backs? How is that possible in a public forum? Through PMs?

Fair enough, but I believe in cause and effect as well. You may not have a choice in the effect, but, you have a choice in the cause, and you have a choice in how you react/handle the effect. Would you not consider that a case of free will?

Edit: Just had to say that be more positive stuff, well, does anyone else hate when people tell them that? Like you can suddenly flip a switch and be happy and positive about something? Drives me nuts. I can deal with occasionally hearing, "It will come in time" cause that'sa bit true, but Be more positive? Shoot me now.

This is the crux of it, and I believe (after having gone through it, and having been like you all) that it's different for each person. Some people need adversity, really mind-numbing, backbreaking, neck-whiplashing adversity to change their lives. Other people completely buckle under such adversity and become worse.

Some people need very specific therapies, and here I'm thinking of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), but it has to be the kind that takes autism into account (in my layman's opinion, the general NT ones don't work, they're the fancy equivalent of your "forcing ourselves to smile, or not say negative things" which of course makes no sense to an autistic). I've taken some books out of the library that addressed just this, but I had already lived so much of my life figuring things out on my own (remember I'm 44, so I've been at this a really, really long time) that the book mostly gave me a lot of "ah!" moments; new, meaningful contexts into which I could already slot my thoughts and behavior patterns. But it could really open some vistas for someone younger.

Pharmaceutics work for some people. Most of the ones I tried, over the years, worked at first for me. Then they stopped. The dosages would be adjusted or upped, but eventually they just stopped. I think, for me, it's because I am an undiagnosed autistic. The stress of dealing with the world at an NT level (and the anxiety of doing that and failing more times than not) is what led to my depression. An ever-recurring cycle. How did I fix it? By examining every aspect of my life and realizing what I could do away with (most NT trappings that mean "success" to them) and how I could live with the things I couldn't jettison (my children and their wellbeing are paramount). And, believe it or not, while the drugs were working I started to think of possibilities.

In essence, I recommend MINDFULNESS. It's quite the buzzword to throw around these days, but it's very meaningful when you get down to it. Be present in every moment. Don't just feel or react, *analyze*, but do a full, objective-as-you-can analysis (good, bad, neutral, what does this mean? what *could* this mean? what are the possible next steps?). This all ties into CBT, but in a way that an autistic can make sense of it.

So, in summary:

reexamine life, see what stressors you can jettison (including destructive thoughts, eventually)
reexamine life during each moment to see what value can be gained, what lesson can be learned, how self can be earned

Again, though, every person needs to take a cold, hard inventory of their own life, but you must include your strengths and then go from there. How can you parlay your potential strengths into something you, yourself, will value?

Fantastic post, I love it. Cog therapy with autism in mind can help even the most difficult cases (To different degrees obviously but it works)

Being undiagnosed but on meds is not pleasant, especially if you have a bad psych/doctor. Been there, didn't enjoy it.

Great post mv, you have some really great insights!