The problem with letting a woman know you care about looks

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MXH
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04 Jun 2012, 1:35 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

MXH wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

There are scientific studies proving that men are more visually stimulated than women are. That men are more looks oriented is scientific fact. I guess there is some evolutionary reason for it. Doesn't mean men have to live governed by their chemistry, of course.

Ohh, you mean like a study that tracked what women and men were looking at in a club and ended with women looking at guys often and then lying to the people asking them if they had? For the sake of accuracy, women are just as much looks oriented than men. That they pretend they dont to pass a social facade is a different story.

No, the study where they hooked people up to measuring equipment, showed them images, and then recorded the actual physical changes in brain waves or chemistry, etc.

Something funny about physical changes and brainwaves. They arent a 100% perfect science, that is until they make a mind reading machine. To say women arent looking at men in a room is quite honestly a terrible statement. And to back it up with physical reactions and brainwaves even worsen the argument. What your argument says is women were not as easily aroused by looks as men, as arousal CAN be measured by physical responses and brainwaves. That they are looking for someone is something that can only be measured by following their eyesight.

DW_a_mom
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04 Jun 2012, 1:37 pm

Kurgan wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

This is one of the most offensive things I've ever read on these forums. Cannot take them serioiusly as human beings? I want your statement to live on this board so everyone will know how you really think and treat you accordingly.

he probably could have rephrased his post.

Quote:

You are right, we would never be friends, because I have no patience for people with so little empathy. I don't care who you date, you can make your bed there, but to say this about everyone? Unbelievable.

Empathy to aspies is what reading is to someone with severe dyslexia.

Quote:

My first job out of college was at a health club as a fitness instructor. I know the personal stories. And those people were definitely trying to do something about it, even if some were destined to never have visible results, but you'd just look at them and choose not to take them seriously as human beings. That is DISGUSTING.

Nobody is destined to not see results. Fat people deserve the same respect as everyone else, but they've only got themselves to blame for their weight.

Quote:

Enjoy that attitude becuase it will cost you in life, and when you get busy trying to blame the negative reactions you get from people on their missunderstanding of your AS or some other fault of theirs, I hope you will consider that maybe the fault really is yours.

Nobody chooses to be born with Asperger's.

You are wrong about fat people only having themselves to blame for their weight, and it is that misconception that allows people to judge them negatively. For some people that is true but for others it is NOT, and you don't know from looking which is which. I worked as a fitness instructor, I know the stories.

No one chooses to be born with "fat" genes, either, or to go through things that will make a healthy weight difficult.

I do not think ZX_SpectrumDisorder's attitude is related to his AS, so he doesn't get a free pass from me for it. I understand that empathy is hard, but with the way he writes, it seems he knows perfectly well that his points will not be appreciated. And if he didn't, I will consider rephrasing.

I have a family full of AS and as much as it would be convenient to blame the world for every misunderstanding, if someone has been told over and over, clearly and directly, with logical explanation, that an attitude is inappropriate and then they insist on holding onto it, then responsibility for what happens as a result of that attitude falls on the person who holds it, unless they are so severely impaired they just aren't capable of it. There are members here I would give that pass to, but I'm not inclined to include this guy among them, largely because I really do not believe he would want me to.

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smudge
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04 Jun 2012, 1:46 pm

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Last edited by smudge on 08 Jun 2012, 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kurgan
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04 Jun 2012, 1:56 pm

smudge wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

Fat people deserve the same respect as everyone else, but they've only got themselves to blame for their weight.

That's like me saying that people with Aspergers have only got themselves to blame for not learning to socialise. Being fat is extremely hard - it is an addiction to food, it is influenced by genes, and it is influenced by environmental factors too. One person can eat tons of food and not get shouted at because s/he doesn't become fat. A fat person who eats far less (they often exist) gets blamed for it. Blaming people for being fat is not respecting them. It's viewing them in a very black and white way, just as NTs judge people with AS and think they ALL should learn to socialise.

As for the ZX_SpectrumDisorder argument - I think he is purposely being disrespectful.

If you burn 300 calories less than the mean a day, then it doesn't mean that you're doomed to obesity—it means that you need 300 calories less each day.

People with Asperger's have the same problems socialising as someone who is at a late stage of glaucomamhas with seeing. You can't reach normal levels of social skills simply by eating healthy.

Kurgan
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04 Jun 2012, 2:02 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

A lot of fitness instructors believe in outdated factoids. If you ask a PT without a college degree in personal fitness, everything he/she says isn't necessarily true.

Quote:

No one chooses to be born with "fat" genes, either, or to go through things that will make a healthy weight difficult.

There's no such thing as fat genes. This is why you never see fat people among the masai people. You can have a slightly slow metabolism, but that's it. There are professinal bodybuilders (eg. Lee Priest) who have a slow metabolism as well.

smudge
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04 Jun 2012, 2:11 pm

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Last edited by smudge on 08 Jun 2012, 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Joker
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04 Jun 2012, 2:20 pm

Good point

NicoleG
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04 Jun 2012, 2:28 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

I responded to a post that used the word "equally.". My only point was to say that it has, in fact, been studied, and the term "equally" does not apply.
I do not recall how strong the varient was.

Scope and variance matter when using scientific studies to counter someone's lay opinion that's only based on generalized observation and personal experience.

NicoleG
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04 Jun 2012, 2:35 pm

thewhitrbbit wrote:

I think it's wrong that things are approached like that; but I also have a problem with guys who call girl's ugly. Ugly is relative.

I don't find extremely skinny or extremely heavy women attractive but that doesn't mean they are ugly, I just personally don't find that attractive.

If you never define what ugly is to you, then you will never use it as a descriptor. Someone else who has defined what ugly means to them feels more at ease with using such a term. Yes, it is relative, but why do you have a problem with someone else defining what ugly means to them? Are they not allowed to use that term as a descriptor at all, ever?

Kurgan
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04 Jun 2012, 2:42 pm

It was after I grew up I realized that you can't blame genetics for everything. I somehow doubt that 1/3 of all Americans or 1/4 of all Norwegians carry a fat gene when there were far less fat people 60 years ago, back when you ate fish, beef or chicken (not KFC) instead of microwaved hamburers or pizza for dinner and you didn't buy candy at the cafetaria at your job.

NicoleG
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04 Jun 2012, 2:46 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

This is one of the most offensive things I've ever read on these forums. Enjoy that attitude becuase it will cost you in life, and when you get busy trying to blame the negative reactions you get from people on their missunderstanding of your AS or some other fault of theirs, I hope you will consider that maybe the fault really is yours.

See what I mean about him alienating people up front? You're most definitely not in the running to date him, and I'd be willing to bet that's fine by him.

As for the AS comment - despite all the vitriol that ZX has spouted, I have yet to hear him blame his AS for his opinion.

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04 Jun 2012, 2:58 pm

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Last edited by smudge on 08 Jun 2012, 1:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

NicoleG
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04 Jun 2012, 2:59 pm

smudge wrote:

just as NTs judge people with AS and think they ALL should learn to socialise.

Have you ever heard of tiger moms? My friend is like a tiger mom when it comes to how she deals with me and my social ineptitude. Then again, it's how she deals with EVERYONE that comes within distance of her.

smudge wrote:

As for the ZX_SpectrumDisorder argument - I think he was purposely disrespectful.

I don't know if he's being purposefully disrespectful, but he's most definitely being purposefully blatant in how he feels.

NicoleG
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04 Jun 2012, 3:11 pm

Kurgan wrote:

There's no such thing as fat genes.

Thyroid issues are a known cause for weight gain, and those typically are gene-based anomalies. Sure, it's a really, really small percentage, but it's still there.

The_Face_of_Boo
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04 Jun 2012, 3:17 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:

edgewaters wrote:

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:

yeah, f**k the patriarchy

Them too. But also just these people who can be either gender.

the patriarchy is a power system that can be served by people of any gender
but yes, these specific attitudes are toxic enough on their own without the surrounding structures

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/5630 ... d-monogamy

Patriarchy was probably a consequence of a 'sexual revolution' by beta males against alpha males' monopoly of females..
This may explain why female infidelity was more penalized (by men) in ancient cultures and still nowadays in some cultures.

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/5650 ... s-chastity

See?? See??

I am genius in analyzing and predicting things!!

DW_a_mom
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04 Jun 2012, 6:59 pm

Kurgan wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

A lot of fitness instructors believe in outdated factoids. If you ask a PT without a college degree in personal fitness, everything he/she says isn't necessarily true.

That has nothing to do with the personal stories I heard from MEMBERS trying to deal with obesity issues.

Quote:

No one chooses to be born with "fat" genes, either, or to go through things that will make a healthy weight difficult.

Genetic or pre-natal pre-disposition to weight issues is known and documented. The Masai share a gene set and environmental condition; that says nothing at all about anyone else's.

There can be many more factors than slow metabolism including messed up "full" and "hunger" signals, illnesses that cause sudden and difficult to reverse weight gain (certain pregnancy complications, Hoshimoto's disease, and more), etc - and other situations that often have a genetic root. I admit to short cutting and being imprecise in an attempt to sound bite, but the core truth remains: things can happen before birth that affect weight as an adult, and the person has no control over it.

And, no, I do not wish to continue to debate this. People who have never walked in those shoes, or been close to someone who has walked in those shoes, rarely understand, so I don't expect any different on this thread, and all that wasn't my reason for starting it.

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