creepy guys have such confidence

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there is no reason why he *should* have stayed with her when she refused to work. that could have been the point at which the marriage ended, if it was a problem for him. if it had ended at that point, there would have been shared custody. the fact that he allowed it by staying with her meant that it was ok with him for her to be the primary caregiver.

There are many many reasons to stay in that situation, for a while at least. For one, there's the hope that it's only temporary, that the issues can be fixed. Sould a person be penalized for spending some time trying to salvage the relationship before giving up?

And the simple fact that the guy is fighting for custody is proof that he is not, or is no longer, okay with her being the primary caregiver.

Can you really not see that sometimes a person needs to actually be in a specific situation for a little while before realizing that it is not ideal?

are you saying that a horrible narcissist makes a better caregiver than someone who simply has trouble spotting horrible narcissists?

Edit: also, this discussion takes for granted the idea that avoiding disruption to the child's routine should be the most important goal. I don't believe that to be the case. I believe that adequate time with each parent would be far more beneficial to a child than lack of disruption.

Last edited by mds_02 on 10 Dec 2012, 8:02 am, edited 4 times in total.

The sudden realization doesn't have to happen right after divorce. It could happen while they were both still married. Anyway, it's more a gradual realization than sudden.

It can take a lot of time and lots of bad experiences with the narcissist to realize the person you loved all this time was a narcissist, especially if you weren't if you weren't previously aware such people existed.

And so you don't think I'm trying to discriminate against narcissistic women, my own mother is still affected (even after a few months of separation) by what her narcissistic husband had done to her and still can't believe what had happened. She tells us how she grieves the times when she constantly felt happy and independent (that is, before he ever met her) and the lack of any moment when he actually supported her emotionally and boosted her morale as all he ever did was slander her everywhere he went and treat with like a slave.

As an outsider, you may think, well, why didn't she just dump him the moment she realized he wasn't right for her. Well, for her, it's not as simple as ABC. Even if, for you, it would have been the case.

Too many psychological factors at play here (for example, guilt, warped sense of duty and responsibility, and the misconception that men are expected to treat their women with disrespect, not to mention the culture, and more importantly, the interests of the kids).

Not that simple, no matter how you look at it.

i was saying that the person accusing the other parent of being a horrible narcissist has terrible judgement. if one parent was really that bad and the other parent really allowed it to continue, that is pretty serious. but the courts see it differently anyway - they do not really believe that the parents are suddenly seeing each other clearly after a separation or divorce. they look at the pattern of the marriage itself.

when it comes to marriage, i think that people make their own beds and have to lie in it. that included myself. my former husband was a stay-at-home dad for several years and would have gotten primary custody should we have separated while we had an underaged child. that's the way it works. i do not think it was unfair to me, just because that was the arrangement i made during my marriage. he was a great caregiver for our child and that would not suddenly change if we separated at that time. i proved that i thought he was a great caregiver by allowing him to care for our child. i mean, i didn't put our child in daycare while he was at home or something.

i think shared custody is an ideal situation after divorce, and interestingly... it is becoming the norm in highly feminist countries like sweden. in those countries, both parents are expected to provide for their families and both parents are expected to help care for their children. north america is still pretty old-fashioned. as long as you're seeing old-fashioned ideals you will see old-fashioned results in the aftermath.

but that's all i can say on that topic. i'll read your response but we'll just end up talking in circles if i go on.

That's not the hypothetical scenario that I was describing at all. The realization, albeit late, happens before any separation or divorce.

Yeah, it doesn't sound right that it took a while for the relatively sane person to spot the partner's narcissism, but that's not the point. The point is that this scenario applies to a lot of couples out there and it provides a lot of difficulty for the concerned parent by the time he/she realizes because it would then be too late to just suddenly be the caregiver (assuming he wasn't the caregiver before) that when/if a separation/divorce does eventually happen, the children (and the "breadwinner" parent) are at a big disadvantage because then the narcissist caregiver parent (usually mother) would have all rights to child custody, which would be psychologically even more harmful for the children in the absence of the other parent (unless that other parent also was a narcissist in which case, good riddance, but that's not my scenario anyway) that the law, in such case would be damaging the children rather than help them, and the parent who lost would have a much more difficult time spending some small time with the kids because the narcissistic partner is more likely, due to his/her narcissism, not to agree to fair negotiations concerning the other parent spending time with the children. So in this case, the law is sh*t as it can't really do much for the children in case of covert abuse and can't be fair for the other parent.

You can't reason with a narcissist and expect him/her to be fair and agree to what's right for the children and for both parties, and the law only helps enable the narcissist to be such in this case.

Creepiness is just a feeling. Sometimes social awkwardness can trigger that creepy emotion.

However the point made before that some people who are very enigmatic can fool people (not just women). People with personality disorders can be that very charming and manipulative.

However there are other personality disorders where they want people to be creeped out, and they sort of get off on it. I knew someone like that.

What is creepy is very subjective, but the emotion is real and most people have felt it.

In a way the 'creep' emotion is a sort of default. Where it is an unspecific label for something making person feel ill at ease but without being about to specify why, it is not necessarily an indication of danger.

There is also a lot of social perceptions of predators that are often wrong.

MCalavera, if you go back and reread my post, you'll see i was responding to mds_02 and not to you. i had nothing further to say to you on this issue, so i didn't answer your last post.

this is true, and thank you for bringing the thread back on track.

wrong thread.

Last edited by wtfid2 on 10 Dec 2012, 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Probably the ultimate creep would be a paedophile.
They are usually the least creepy until they are caught, and then they are creepyness defined
A deputy principal of a Northland school recently went through the courts for child molesting. The parents trusted their kids to stay overnight at his house, when much of the offending occurred.

Staring, silent, aspies are unfairly grouped with such genuinely abhorrent people, much like blacks and gays were till recently
.
Maybe Sheldon and Bones are paving a better way forward for aspies, who knows

What pedophiles often do is not only go where the can have access to children, they create the context which they can offend.

that require social understanding, and ability to be convincing.

If you think of it would parent normally let their children stay overnight at a deputy principal's house? What possible reason for doing so? Yet they did.

To my experience, you are creepy if you approach women like normal people with blunt honesty.

Tips to not appear creepy:
1. Don't talk about your true emotions or intentions
2. Don't mention anything related to your interest in relationships or your sex drive, as if you were some animal who never even thought or reflected about it
3. Always conform to any social rule and norm, no matter how ridiculous
4. Treat women socially as if they were some fragile but precious object
5. Hold back on intelligence and rational thoughts, except maybe once in a while pull out something unrelated to show off (its too confusing otherwise)
6. Don't argue, just always pretend to make exceptions, but then do the proper thing anyway


NOT WITH ME THOUGH.

What sane parent would leave his/her little kids alone with any adult stranger (pedophile or not) for that matter (unless it's within a remotely supervised setting or something)?

These might be a few of my problems. As much as I hate to agree with number 4, it sadly seems to be the only way I'm gonna ever get anywhere in the dating world.

Bumping this thread because of a new story... it's on Facebook only so far, not Youtube, but I'm helping spread a video of a local creepy Mediterranean guy stroking the hair of the unsuspecting blonde woman sitting in front of him. I'm glad the poster got such good video footage of his face and everything... I've forwarded the FB link to our local news teams. Better than merely stopping him only the one time, this guy may get jailed/punished as he deserves!

GRRRRRR!! ! Creepy guys like that are what give the REST of us a bad name! Guys like that are what put women on constant alert status, afraid to speak to anyone - making meeting someone all the more difficult for BOTH genders! Guys like that are simply disgusting in general!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151146978001937

Click that while in FB, maybe it'll work for you - it does for me.

I thought Boo said he quit wearing his glasses in public.