Who are the Self Proclaimed Nice Guys here?

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I think we might have gone a little bit off topic here.

AspergianMutantt: Keep digging. Eventually, you may reach the other side.

I think there are a lot of nice guys who come to WP.

I don't like to single people out though (Octobertiger).

AspergianMutantt: what you are failing to see about what you describe above is that, and i want to say this as gently as i can, no other human being can give to you what you describe above. those comforts you say you need to feel human again, comforts only some nameless/faceless hypothetical woman can provide--those comforts cannot be derived from a person other than yourself if you do not first learn how to provide them for yourself. if you seek them anywhere but within yourself FIRST, you will never find them anywhere else outside yourself. i am sorry if this is hard for you to hear, but it is simply the way it is, it is human nature. neither i, nor any other woman, DECIDED it would be this way. HUMAN NATURE decided it. that therapy you never tried that you assumed would never comfort you--re-examine that idea. i strongly encourage you to re-examine that idea.

You don't get it, i didn't have the tools they were not instinctual to me,. I needed help.
Yes its not women whom owes me, I am not entitled, but it would have helped ton if I had that support
and if that was true of me, then what about other men?

Last edited by AspergianMutantt on 08 Mar 2014, 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i tried.

starvingartist: He's not listening to any of us, unfortunately.

But despite what you have been through you are still a good person.

I just don't think your point is coming across very well here.

(((((HUGS)))))

^^^
THIS
+1

A cup of tea and some light refreshments wouldn't go a miss at this moment in time.

After this thread, there is something I need to make absolutely clear: women are human. We don't have all the answers, we can't cure your problems, we aren't conspiring, we don't all think the same, we can't read each other's minds and we have no idea how to make everyone feel better.

Women are NOT a monolith, and we are just as liable to error, misunderstanding, social awkwardness and/or problems as men are. Viewing us as a monolith is dehumanizing. Don't do it.

And, in before some yahoo says it, I don't think men are a monolith either.

I doubt if I even count.

Hmmm... I don't think the issue here can be contended with rationally at all because the emotional hurt stems from painful experiences and rejection. People can understand perfectly well what you're saying here, but when they look at their situation and how they feel it sickens them that it could be that way and there's "no one to blame". They think "well where's my justice"? "Who's ever going to approach me?"

And I do think that it has to be admitted that it is legitimately easier at least to "kick things off" for women in this culture. Not to patronize delusional men at all, but it really is true that they have an initial hurdle to get past and they have to step forward and impress someone while oftentimes the other gender just waits to be impressed- of course this is by no means always true, but let's face it the majority of the people in the world can be shallow and seem intimidating, have expectations of you, and as a male you are the one who has to initiate it, has to be creative and put up a good front (in this culture at least). But this is a good thing, women. You are wonderful and desirable, you have particular sensitivities that we just don't have and we crave. And sometimes all a man who's down on his luck needs is some empathy. People can only take so much rejection and keep hearing "buck up, cowboy".

1. Let's face it, some men really do treat women like s**t. Actually, a good deal of men totally objectify women and they still seem to get their way, still seem to sleep in a warm and occupied bed, still please someone, listen to someone laugh... It doesn't objectify people or demonstrate anything delusional when you are confused at this situation and know for a fact that you would actually offer of yourself, be self sacrificing, and never consider treating a woman like a piece of meat. Let's be honest with ourselves as men and women, and recognize that although all people are novel and should have companionship and love, they do offer something up and a good deal of people offer "hamburger", they really do. If you think that isn't true then you haven't met my first step dad. My mother thought he was the best until he started physically abusing her, verbally abusing her, punking me (just a thirteen year old being punked by a forty something year old) on a regular basis, spending our money on booze and golf, etc. If that isn't f*****g hamburger then I don't know what is.

2. You may or may not have noticed that I actually don't agree with the perspective I was putting forth. What I meant to do was illustrate how it can be emotionally, how no rational argument, however reasonable and rational it is, is invariably just going to magic away someone's pain and alienation. And once we understand that it isn't helpful either for us to say "just fix yourself". I mean, let's get real here guys, we have someone talking about having been raped and yearning for years for validation from a woman. That is just heart breaking people. What our friend here needs is not just any therapist but a great therapist, needs some light at the end of the tunnel and to not only start to trust the idea of therapy but find a trustworthy therapist who can really understand him and see what he needs. And that isn't easy to find.

Telling him how delusional his jaded and vitriolic temper and bitterness is, how violence isn't a solution for anything (nor is it appropriate), is going to do next to nothing for him. What he needs is our support. When you see a broken person you've got to do your best to build up on that person. Why don't we ask him about himself? Ask him what he's tried with the opposite sex, what issues he's run into? Give him the best advice we can? See where he lives and see about finding him a really good therapist? I'll look into it myself because I personally can't stand to see people like this. It's pretty sobering to register every now and then that people still experience things like that and it just wrecks their lives.

Lukecash12: The difference is that someone talking about their own rape is usually not demanding that everyone else "fix" them or take up prostitution to make them feel better or there'll be an epidemic of rape and abuse which will totally be justified by the fact that men are frustrated. I don't even know how else to put this: there is no way for me to be sympathetic with someone who insists on prostituting others to make themselves feel better and demands that women must step in to fix their problems, which are totally women's fault for not giving up sex more often.

Of all the rape victims I have known, and there have been many, not a single woman I've ever met responded to rape that way, and none of the men who've confided in me about this over the years have EVER made that demand. It is not just ethically abhorrent, it's also a dangerous line of thought which is used to excuse sexual violence: men who rape consistently dehumanize women, blaming them for their failures and problems. Are you interested in the studies on this?

The only advice to give is.... the only advice. Period. It's the only advice for men and women. There is no other advice to give. The only thing you can do if you are someone with damage in your past is deal with it. No one else can do it for you. No one else can make it better, and blaming everyone else for your problems only makes it harder to get any kind of healing. The only compassionate and ethical thing I could do here is to make it clear that women cannot solve his problem for him, and that insisting on prostituting women so that he or other men won't have to go on a raping spree and abuse women is WRONG.

Sometimes, being compassionate is not holding someone's hand. Sometimes it is telling them that the thing they want to do is hurting themselves and others.

I 'second' babybird's sentiments...
...and some more (((hugs))) to you, as well...