nature of attraction

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Norway hardly has any functioning public transportation left. It's so-so in the cities and non-existant out on the countryside.

There's no minimum wage either, but there is a de-facto minimum wage of roughly 40 000 dollars for full time work. Typically, high school dropouts earn more in Norway than they would in the states, but for harder working people it's not like that. An engineer here can't afford a brand new Corvette, for instance.

I balloon up on more than 200 calories a day- 500 if I exercise vigorously for two hours.
Did the high protein thing twice in high school and once in college.

Next.


I know when someone references an idea considered by modern medicine as laughable quackery.

Cool story- every person on Earth minus one is NOT you.
I'm not fat, either, because I eat next to nothing and exercise like stupid.
If I hadn't been able to afford the medication my doctor gave me when I was gaining 15 lbs a month eating next to nothing,
I'd still be obese, myself

Metabolism is actually heavily-influenced by genetic predisposition, as is sensitivity to hormonal disruption, and overall lifestyle is of course very heritable.
My mother is obese and eats very little.
The study you referenced was of whether obesity is caused by a defective LEPTIN RECEPTOR gene-
one of many genes thought to play a role.
"Today's finding might be a disappointment to leptinomaniacs, but scientists are actively exploring other avenues and other genetic links to weight gain, metabolism and appetite.

Beyond leptin, five other genes are known to cause weight problems, and there are likely to be many more, Farooqi said."

That was never in question. The point was that people in industrial environments don't metabolize calories efficiently, and the food in America which is calorically-dense is the most affordable. "Too many calories" for me is two apples.,

And that's probably why college graduates are far less likely to be among the obese demographic we're actually talking about.

You'd have to drive an hour to get to the nearest Wal-Mart, where I'm from. You'd pass 4 gas stations and a milkshake stand on the way.


I'm saying millions of Americans live in urban places plagued with violent crime, where people are mugged for stepping outside their front doors.


"The local gym"? These places don't have DOCTOR'S OFFICES for miles and miles.

And, AGAIN many Americans don't have access to groceries.

Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 20 Apr 2012, 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

They're not uncommon in the US, either, especially if someone wants to eat healthfully.

40,000$ a year as a defacto minimum wage..? If I worked 40 hours(full time) on my states minimum wage 7.25$ x 40 = 290$ x 52 = 15,080$ - 7.62% witholding for Social Security and Medicare, - 15% federal payroll tax, - 5.62% state payroll tax for a total of 28.24% tax out of 15,080$ or 4284$ leaving you at the end of the year, 10,796$ out of which you have to provide yourself with a car, lodging food, utilities and clothes, and soon to be mandatory, healthcare. If you don't some how manage to scrape up the money to buy healthcare from a private company, you will be taxed a further 650$ a year and still not receive any healthcare since a single payer government healthcare system would be socialism and that would be bad.

Last edited by rabbittss on 20 Apr 2012, 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tell me about it the most I have ever spent on healthy food is 340$ on gas I have payed a least 100$ dollars to fill up my dogde truck.

LOL

No payouts cause public medicine = socialism = bad?

I love it.


I do love the implication that engineers work harder than high school dropouts.

Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 20 Apr 2012, 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Then you underestimate you daily intakes.



While somatotype has nothing to do with personality, it has everything to do with bodytype. Ask any fitness guru.

Very few respected scientists believe that anyone is destined to be fat.



No, but every meso-endomorph or endomorph can do what I did. Leonardo DiCaprio, Shakira and Russell Crowe are all endomorphs.



You can't gain 15 lbs of fat a month. A man with a very slow metabolism can at the most gain 20 lbs of raw fat within 6 months. The rest i glycogen and water retention.



Right. I've never met an obese person who ate little. It's just not possible; energy is not stored as fat unless it's obsolete.

As for the hormonal part, Victoria Beckham has PCOS. Her troubles with weight loss are most likely bigger than yours.



Many countries are far more polluted than the United States, yet has a lower rate of obesity. Two apples is 120 calories. It's not too much for anyone. Far more calories than that are used to maintain your body temperature.



Driving for an hour is 50 cents worth of gasoline in the states.


There are 145,000 grocery stores in the United States, compared to roughly 129,000 gas stations. More or less everyone has access to groceries.

You missed my sarcasm I think. I'm 100% in favor of a single payer system.

You seem to be functioning under the misapprehension that these large numbers of gas stations and grocery stores are evenly distributed. I have to drive 20km to get to the closest grocery store or gas station. My Grandmother, has to drive 38km to get to the closest gas station or grocery store.

Your idea that an hour's driving = .50cents of gas is also incorrect. Average speed limit on roads in the US is 55 miles per hour. Average gas consumption of an average car in the US is anywhere from 18 to 25 miles per gallon. Right now, a gallon of gasoline costs 3.87 where I am. So say, on the high side, I get 25 miles per gallon, it costs me almost 9$ to drive for an hour. A fair sight more than .50cents.

Last edited by rabbittss on 20 Apr 2012, 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Given that you pay 2 dollars for a pound of chicken breast or one dollar for a can of tuna, I have reason to doubt that. One liter of milk is 1.13 dollars, compared to 3 dollars in Norway. 12 eggs are 2.10 dollars, compared to 5 dollars in Norway.

And as I already explained, for a person who makes less than 11,000$ a year after taxes and has to drive 10-20 miles to get to work or to a shop, that price difference is equalized extremely quickly. Please also keep in mind, if you get sick or hurt in Norway, you get to go to the doctor. If you get sick or hurt in the USA, you are f****d.

Last time I checked, Norway was a fairly major Oil producing state, certainly the most productive outside of Russia in so far as Europe is concerned.. Maybe if your government was less interested in selling that petroleum to other countries, they could bring your prices down a bit. But then you would have to give up your marvelous social safety net, since if I understand correctly, it's largely paid for by the taxes the government levies on the oil sales.

An ordinary Norwegian drives just as far for work. The Norwegian safety net is based on foreign debt. If we stop exporting oil, nobody will lend us any money.

Then there's the fees we pay to drive on the roads; my dad pays 5,000 dollars a year just to pass a toll booth.

But you also said the average Norwegian has a "defacto" minimum wage of about 40,000$ which is nearly 3x what the "Average" minimum wage is in the US.


How much do you pay for College/University? How much do you pay for Healthcare? If you have to go to the dentist for a cavity, how much do you pay?

Here, the prices range from 16,000$ a year for instate tuition at a public university, to 60,000$ for an out of state public university.

Healthcare is WILDLY out of control as far as its costs go. My mom recently spent 10 days in the hospital and the bills totaled nearly 100,000, if you are lucky enough to get medicare, then you would only owe about 20,000$ more dollars, of course if you are on medicare it means you are disabled or elderly and are on an extremely fixed income and likely will never be able to pay off that 20,000$

An extraction starts at 150$ and a filling costs 471$ with a root canal costing about 2100$

Last edited by rabbittss on 20 Apr 2012, 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nope. There's nothing to "estimate"- at the moment I have a 90 calorie Special K bar for breakfast, a can of beans that's 150 for lunch, and I exercise daily. Does it bother you that you're so dogmatic about your worldviews that you have to insist people who prove them wrong are either stupid or lying?


It has nothing to do with REALITY, according to the medical community. It was a POP CULTURE FAD, and that was at the HEIGHT of it's long-ago prominence.

Very few respected scientists believe there is no variation in human metabolism, with some people existing on the far-flung ends of that variation.



ROFL.



YOu mean...alien parasite?

More made up numbers? Kyool.


I've met many, and talked with many more. Any weight loss forum or support group will be filled with people who've been on strict diets for years yet remain overweight. That energy isn't stored as fat unless it's obsolete has nothing to do with it- you're still presuming everyone has a comparable number of calories they burn daily, when in reality that number can differ by the thousands. You need to get out a bit more rather than denying the existence of millions of people.

I don't wish to look skeletal, so I'll concede that.

Where did I say endocrine disruptors are the only factors in obesity? Funny- I seem to remember repeating several times over that there are many many factors at work- because that's what all the evidence says.


LOL. Do you know how silly you sound when trying to inform me how my 24 year old body works over the internet? I've lived a lifetime of being obese while eating next to nothing and having no discernible medical condition to explain it. Opining about how men shouldn't be attracted to me when I'm fat is one thing, but flat out telling me my ass won't be spilling out of my jeans if I consume above x number of calories is just stupid.


Plus the hour. If you have a car.


That doesn't mean they're evenly-distributed.
See above.

Lack of access to grocery stores and healthy foods is one of the main causes thought to be responsible for obesity, sweetheart.
This is a basic and thoroughly-demonstrated phenomenon and I'm having trouble believing you haven't heard of it before- I keep forgetting you're not from here, though:
Food Deserts

"Residents of food desert areas have no alternative but to utilize private cars, travel several miles on foot, or use public transit to gain access to healthful food. Consumers without cars are dependent on food sources in their closest proximity. Ownership and access to a vehicle may be the best marker for access regardless of Socioeconomic status. A study by Inagami reveals that the distance traveled to food stores is an independent predictor of BMI (Ford 61). The problem increases in rural food desert areas, where closing the distance to nutritional food access is impossible on foot.

According to a report to Congress prepared by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, assessing the extent of limited access to affordable, nutritious food, approximately 2.4 million households in the United States are more than a mile from a supermarket and lack access to a vehicle.[2] The physical distance from full service supermarkets leaves residents of these areas to be more likely to purchase food from convenience stores or corner shops that stock mainly cheap, processed foods or foods high in fats and sugars."

Research indicates that low-income households shop where food prices are lower, and generally cannot afford healthful foods. Compared with residents of higher-income neighborhoods, low SES individuals generally have diets higher in meat and processed foods with a low intake of fruits and vegetables (Yeh, 2006). It has been suggested that people of low socioeconomic status ultimately spend up to 37% more on their food purchases, due to smaller weekly food budgets and poorly stocked grocery stores (Morland, 2002).

Fringe food retailers in food deserts can have a 30-60% markup on prices, provide a limited selection of products and a dominant marketing of processed foods. Comparing prices that consumers pay for similar foods purchased at a different outlets determines disparities in real food prices. Low-income individuals are more likely to purchase inexpensive fats and sugars over fresh fruits and vegetables that are more expensive on a per calorie basis (Story, Kaphingst, Robinson-O’Brien, & Glanz, 2008).[4] Nutritious foods such as whole grain products and fresh fruits and vegetables are more expensive than high calorie junk foods. “Energy-dense [junk foods] cost on average $1.76 per 1,000 calories, compared with $18.16 per 1,000 calories for low-energy but nutritious foods”.

"
Repeating up and down that Americans have access to groceries, or that my body works Y way, or ABC, XYZ, doesn't make it so.

Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 20 Apr 2012, 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm also confused by your continual mentioning of Gas Stations, Kurgen. Have you ever been in a US gas station? They sell Sodas, Beer, Chips, Lotto Tickets and maybe some stale bread or nearly expired milk.

They don't exactly stock a lot in the way of grocery items.

Mine has a basket of overripe fruit (and by that I mean a couple mushy apples and a lone banana, usually) at the front counter- it's a $2.50 per item. For that, I know for a fact that I can get 2 oatmeal creme pies, a giant bag of tortilla chips, a small container of nacho cheese, and a strawberry cheese danish.