Growing up and done with bad boys

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1000Knives
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20 Jun 2012, 2:47 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
Expecting a woman to feel obliged to have sex with you because you have been nice or a shoulder to cry on and using kindness as a means of manipulation is no different than a bad boy using aggression to manipulate a woman. The only difference is that the bad boy is more direct, upfront and persistent about it instead of being indiscreet. Some people need to take responsibility and make changes instead of blaming women for their problems.


It's not so much expecting a woman to feel obliged to have sex with me because I've been nice. I don't expect women to have sex with me for any reason. However, I expect not to be bothered by listening to their emotional misfortune if there's nothing they want to trade for that. I won't expect them to have sex with me, but I expect them to take their emotional problems elsewhere if they've not already had sex with me. As TM said, it's a waste of my time.


I don't know, for the emotional problem thing, for me it's less being used as an IW, and more that I'm an idiot with anyone's emotional problems, and instead of being like "aww I understand, it's all right" and I'm like "so you should just like, do ____, and then _____" or if it's a problem I know nothing about, I just am like "Look, I know nothing about how to solve this problem." Because I don't really "see" things in emotions as much. So then everyone gets pissed at me, even male friends stop talking to me as I'm unable to give them emotional support. I think it's because people will say "_____ made me feel _____" and my way of looking at things is more like "_____ made ____ and ____ happen, and it's good/bad." Feelings are only coincidental to me. I'm highly alexithymic, so I can barely recognize my own feelings, nevermind others, so yeah. For me when I describe stuff, it's more like "this made me feel good, this made me feel bad" and occasionally "this got me pissed." That's about the extent of my emotional connection to myself. I'm really reluctant to use words like "depressed" and stuff, as I don't really know what they mean as far as how they relate to my feelings. So when people ask how I "feel" I usually go on long essays about why things happened and why they're good or bad.

Anyway, though, the attitude of not doing unless you're getting something in return, it's not really a Godly attitude, I mean you shouldn't let yourself be taken advantage of, but there is such a thing as kindness for kindness sake, giving without expecting anything in return. If that's truly your attitude, if you'll never give or be charitable without expecting anything back, well, have fun I guess.



HisDivineMajesty
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20 Jun 2012, 3:26 pm

I don't have any female friends. Any woman who'd tell me about emotional problems would be a stranger or an acquaintance, and not worth the effort.



Palakol
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20 Jun 2012, 3:40 pm

Uprising wrote:
Are you saying that women abusers don't and never will exist in aspie world?

What sucks is I hurt women all the time and I don't even realize it.



The_Face_of_Boo
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20 Jun 2012, 3:47 pm

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Call it bitterness - I call it realism. Being 'just friends' with a woman you might find remotely attractive means subjecting yourself to something that, to women who observe you, reduces your evolutionary value. They don't just see a man being 'friends' with that woman. They see a man unable to have a sexual relationship with that woman, and therefore a man unfit for them. I often compare these men to servants, because that's what they are. I often try to determine my own value by observing men in relationships with women and thinking about how they'd compare to me in terms of looks, speech, physical dominance and display of skills or wealth. If they've clearly been friendzoned, I rank these men below me on at least one field, and I can't help but feel sorry for them. I know how that feels.



Um....oh..well...I have mixed feelings about this paragraph.

In one side, it's an immoral attitude to view all non-relative females only in a sex-trade context, this is seriously messed up I believe.

On the other hand, a female 'friend' (not anymore, got too distant from her that we are barely in contact anymore) rudely showed disgust toward of physical traits in some guys that I have them the same.... and I have been indirectly mocked for me having them (yet the last time she saw she flirted me because my body pretty changed LOL), and she wasn't the first female acquaintance or pro-claimed friend who does this. So yea, those girls in specific made me ask "so they see me as friend just because they see as a lesser male?", never remained a friend with those because well...i am a MALE, my gender is a huge part of me as a person, and if a girl thinks of me as a lesser male then she thinks of me as a lesser person and i wouldn't want a friend like that regardless of his/her gender...

This attitude of them toward the male gender is as bad as your only-sex-trade one.



HisDivineMajesty
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20 Jun 2012, 5:42 pm

The reason I have a sex-only approach, or a relationship-only approach if that's necessary, is that being friends with women won't benefit me. I'm friends with guys because guys do things I like. Only met a girl once who came somewhat close to those interests. She was a friend of mine's romantic interest, but she didn't want to have a relationship with him and we all lost contact with her.

And if a friendship doesn't involve common interests, it's hard to maintain it.



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20 Jun 2012, 7:06 pm

TM wrote:
I think its more likely, that "bad boys" have a collection of traits that certain women like, assertive, confident, self-assured, alpha qualities etc, than they are all sociopaths or manipulators. Secondly, it's not about misogyny and exploitation, its about as I said, confidence, the fact that the man expects the woman to qualify herself to him (opposite of normal social protocol), isn't needy and so on.


That doesn't sound like a bad boy to me. Anyone can have those traits if they work on themselves. In fact, I would say those are the most attractive traits anyone could have in dating (being assertive, confident, self-assured, physically fit, etc). When you like yourself, others can like you too.

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
The reason I have a sex-only approach, or a relationship-only approach if that's necessary, is that being friends with women won't benefit me. I'm friends with guys because guys do things I like. Only met a girl once who came somewhat close to those interests. She was a friend of mine's romantic interest, but she didn't want to have a relationship with him and we all lost contact with her.

And if a friendship doesn't involve common interests, it's hard to maintain it.


I can understand why being friends with girls can be hard because of problems caused by AS, but if you make the extra effort to get to know how girls tick, maybe you could understand better how to begin a relationship with a girl, or how to keep one up. I always like to date men who I feel would be a good friend, because I feel that friendship is an important part of a relationship.

Also, expect to be a shoulder to cry on in a relationship. That's inevitable.

If you start pushing women away when they come to you for help now, then they may rightfully assume that you will display the same lack of compassion in a relationship with them.


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20 Jun 2012, 7:34 pm

deltafunction wrote:
That doesn't sound like a bad boy to me. Anyone can have those traits if they work on themselves. In fact, I would say those are the most attractive traits anyone could have in dating (being assertive, confident, self-assured, physically fit, etc). When you like yourself, others can like you too.


Not everyone with these traits is a bad boy. However, most bad boys have these traits in some form.

deltafunction wrote:
I can understand why being friends with girls can be hard because of problems caused by AS, but if you make the extra effort to get to know how girls tick, maybe you could understand better how to begin a relationship with a girl, or how to keep one up. I always like to date men who I feel would be a good friend, because I feel that friendship is an important part of a relationship.


It's a bit harder when they tend to be hostile from the very beginning. Usually, they don't share my interests, they start any conversation with some kind of insult or gossip towards me or a mutual acquaintance, and I find them profoundly uninteresting in general. I'm not sure if it's Asperger's, as it's not the single factor in determining my relationship status in life.

deltafunction wrote:
Also, expect to be a shoulder to cry on in a relationship. That's inevitable.


In a relationship, fine. In a friendship, for a good reason, fine. But not if it's the result of anyone's choices in external relationships.

deltafunction wrote:
If you start pushing women away when they come to you for help now, then they may rightfully assume that you will display the same lack of compassion in a relationship with them.


Which is interesting, right? Independent, rugged (not really relevant, but I like that word), 'changeable' - the things women are apparently attracted to in their early 20s.



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20 Jun 2012, 8:05 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Which is interesting, right? Independent, rugged (not really relevant, but I like that word), 'changeable' - the things women are apparently attracted to in their early 20s.


I don't think you can generalise. You may overlook those who do seek a genuinely nice guy, and they may avoid you because of your cynicism towards women.

It matters how you treat your lady friends... Plus, if you don't have any, then you are missing potential hook-ups with girls who see that you're friends with their friend. I see a lot of women date within their social circle.


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20 Jun 2012, 8:22 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
The reason I have a sex-only approach, or a relationship-only approach if that's necessary, is that being friends with women won't benefit me. I'm friends with guys because guys do things I like. Only met a girl once who came somewhat close to those interests. She was a friend of mine's romantic interest, but she didn't want to have a relationship with him and we all lost contact with her.

And if a friendship doesn't involve common interests, it's hard to maintain it.


"You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you any different."
-Magneto

Seriously, you rock!



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20 Jun 2012, 8:30 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
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Call it bitterness - I call it realism. Being 'just friends' with a woman you might find remotely attractive means subjecting yourself to something that, to women who observe you, reduces your evolutionary value. They don't just see a man being 'friends' with that woman. They see a man unable to have a sexual relationship with that woman, and therefore a man unfit for them. I often compare these men to servants, because that's what they are. I often try to determine my own value by observing men in relationships with women and thinking about how they'd compare to me in terms of looks, speech, physical dominance and display of skills or wealth. If they've clearly been friendzoned, I rank these men below me on at least one field, and I can't help but feel sorry for them. I know how that feels



Um....oh..well...I have mixed feelings about this paragraph.

In one side, it's an immoral attitude to view all non-relative females only in a sex-trade context, this is seriously messed up I believe.

On the other hand, a female 'friend' (not anymore, got too distant from her that we are barely in contact anymore) rudely showed disgust toward of physical traits in some guys that I have them the same.... and I have been indirectly mocked for me having them (yet the last time she saw she flirted me because my body pretty changed LOL), and she wasn't the first female acquaintance or pro-claimed friend who does this. So yea, those girls in specific made me ask "so they see me as friend just because they see as a lesser male?", never remained a friend with those because well...i am a MALE, my gender is a huge part of me as a person, and if a girl thinks of me as a lesser male then she thinks of me as a lesser person and i wouldn't want a friend like that regardless of his/her gender...

This attitude of them toward the male gender is as bad as your only-sex-trade one.


You have mixed feelings because you know he is right. You cling so desparately to that "we're all the same" religion. ;-)



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20 Jun 2012, 9:27 pm

HipsterChick wrote:
I used to want a dark, brooding, exciting guy, someone who was free like me. I wanted someone misunderstood and someone wild I could tame. Then I got hurt. And hurt. And hurt again. I was naive, and these boys knew just what to say to make me feel understood and wanted. I was lied to and cheated on. I want a guy who won't go out partying with his friends and then cheat on me with some slut he met at the bar.

well, you wanted a bad boy, and you got one.



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21 Jun 2012, 12:03 am

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
Good point right here, the misogyny and bitterness is strong in this thread.


Call it bitterness - I call it realism. Being 'just friends' with a woman you might find remotely attractive means subjecting yourself to something that, to women who observe you, reduces your evolutionary value. They don't just see a man being 'friends' with that woman. They see a man unable to have a sexual relationship with that woman, and therefore a man unfit for them. I often compare these men to servants, because that's what they are. I often try to determine my own value by observing men in relationships with women and thinking about how they'd compare to me in terms of looks, speech, physical dominance and display of skills or wealth. If they've clearly been friendzoned, I rank these men below me on at least one field, and I can't help but feel sorry for them. I know how that feels.


I'm sure that would make a girl feel special, viewing her as a sex vendor or toy to be used in a trade off. If women do use you as an emotional tampon, it's because you aren't asserting the type of relationship or friendship you want, there are friendships between male and female which don't involve being a shrink. You need to assert that to them early on and if they don't like it, you will soon know that the friendship wasn't genuine.



TM
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21 Jun 2012, 2:27 am

deltafunction wrote:
TM wrote:
I think its more likely, that "bad boys" have a collection of traits that certain women like, assertive, confident, self-assured, alpha qualities etc, than they are all sociopaths or manipulators. Secondly, it's not about misogyny and exploitation, its about as I said, confidence, the fact that the man expects the woman to qualify herself to him (opposite of normal social protocol), isn't needy and so on.


That doesn't sound like a bad boy to me. Anyone can have those traits if they work on themselves. In fact, I would say those are the most attractive traits anyone could have in dating (being assertive, confident, self-assured, physically fit, etc). When you like yourself, others can like you too.


Bertrand Russell said "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." and this appears to carry over in a certain manner to dating. For some reason, "bad boys" appear to have these traits more frequently and display them in a more clear manner than "nice guys".



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29 Jun 2012, 3:31 pm

OP is a trolling sockpuppet. in future, please report suspicious members to a moderator. thank you.


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