The irrational standards women have toward men

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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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05 Jan 2018, 6:55 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Chronos wrote:
To be honest, I’ve been thinking a lot about the endless stream of typically young guys who come in here to vent their frustrations with dating. I, as well as others have often tried to help them, but I have come to the conclusion that we shouldn’t.

If a person with a pervasive social development disorder who knows they have such a disorder posseses such a level of cognitive dissonance that have redefined normal and average to pertain to themselves rather than admit they are outliers to avoid facing the reality that normal average people are dating marrying and having sex in en mass, and they are not, by virtue of the fact that they are socially delayed alone, and their shortcomings are internal rather than external, these are individuals who, in their present mindset, lack the capacity to grow as people and should not be in relationships because they are not at a place where they would be able to Maintain one. They lack the necessary social fitness And few of them seem to never acquire it due to There in ability to Look them selves in the mirror and admit that they are not average and the problem is with them and not anyone else. While they are here trying to distort statistics To meet their comfortable delusion, the bulk of the human population is doing as it always did, having relationships marrying having sex and perpetuating the human species.


^ This.


Yup. The truth hurts sometimes.



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05 Jan 2018, 6:57 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I hate statistics when it comes to social research.

They do not reflect individual people.

When people rely on (faulty) statistics, they tend to "stay down," rather than rise up.

All this 20%, 80%, whatever----doesn't apply to me. Alpha-Beta-Gamma-Delta.....what is this, "Brave New World?"

Not yet. Pass the soma.


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05 Jan 2018, 7:01 pm

MissChess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
MissChess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
MissChess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
MissChess wrote:
sly279 wrote:
And there’s guys who see it as competition to sleep with as many women as they can, or sleep with every girl in their high school, or town. The whole notches on bed thing.

There are women who do the same thing. Of course, they have to accept that other people will call them whores and sluts for doing what men get called studs for doing.


There's many reasons for that, you cannot reasonably compare the two, it's not the same thing at all.

Many reasons for...what? Reasons that guys have sex with as many women as possible? Reasons why women have sex with as many guys as possible? Reasons why women and men are judged according to different scales?

If you want to tell me I'm wrong, please do and I'll happily discuss it with you. I'm just not able to determine, from what you've written, exactly which statements you're disputing.


Reasons why women and men are judged according to different scales.

Very many women can get sex very very easily, while only few guys can actually get sex easily. For guys, being very succesful is a requirement, or the small handful of guys who are just born incredibly handsome, but this percentage is very low: So in summary, for most guys it requires an incredible amount of work, or winning the genetic lottery to reach a place of easy access to sex. This is not the case for women. I would say probably 80-90 % of women could get sex easily, even if they were unemployed and broke.

Add to that, that even when the guy has the right foundation, it is still him who in 90% of cases has to initiate the conversation, be creative and charismatic to win over the woman. It is also still expected that the guy pays for eventual dates. There's a dissproportionate amount of effort and sacrifice, on every step of the way to the bedroom. It might be different for male moviestars and rockstars, but they are outliers to say the least, and it's not very useful to focus on something that only applies to 0.001% of all men.

So it is not so much having sex with the woman that is the achievement, it is all the hard work and achievements made to reach the point where the sex was even possible.
I know alot of you women will try to argue against what I'm saying here, but I think if you're completely honest with yourselves, you will agree that it is not the same, hence men get called studs, and women sluts. Not saying it's right or wrong, just exlaining why this is the case.

Interesting. I appreciate the clarification.

Yes, there's definitely a disconnect between the level of effort required for men vs. women to accumulate a large number of sexual partners. I have noted that many people put extra effort and attention into getting things that are more difficult for them to acquire, and sometimes wonder if the general perception that men want more sex/have a greater libido than women is due at least in part to that disparity. (If other words, in a society where men and women experienced sexual equality with regard to available partners and initiation of encounters, would men still want more sex than women?) I digress.

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying the reason men admire and envy other men who are more successful sexually is because of the awareness that they've had to work harder for it, while the same number of encounters is relatively easy for women to achieve and therefore not deserving of the same admiration. Yes?


Yep, you pretty much hit the nail on it's head.

So far, so good. What's missing in your interpretation, as far as I can tell, is the moral outrage that accompanies judgement of women who are sexually promiscuous.

A woman who enjoys sex with many partners isn't simply dismissed because it's easy for her to achieve that activity. She is looked down on and reviled. She is insulted. She's a whore, a slut, a slag, not fit to meet a man's parents, not fit to be a wife, on and on it goes. This shrieking and clutching of pearls is heaped on her by both men and women.

Yes, in the modern day we're more aware of the risks associated with sexual promiscuity, and I'm aware there's at least a fringe element beginning to judge men for this behavior as well - but there is not, nor has there been, any sort of parity in this arena.


That comes from the middle ages. I’m guessing a promiscuous woman is tarred as irresponsible and stupid as she’s the one who will be carrying any new life. Also it’s male instinct to want and have more sex. Back where this mindset originated, I would say it would have been shocking and offensive for a woman to be as such.

Men and women aren’t the same. In some cases, the thought of equality is ridiculous. If all was equal, there would only be one gender.



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05 Jan 2018, 7:09 pm

palaua wrote:
MissChess wrote:
SIDWULF wrote:
Do you not understand? Men can be racist or mysoginistic as long as they are good looking women will have sex with them. Women have secret rape fantasies and are okay being dominated by invasive species (economic migrant crisis). They have no loyalty to the tribe. It's the beta males who don't get away with anything. It's a form of control over average men.

Feminism is about controlling men!

Wake up.

Gosh, Sid, thanks so much for mansplaining that for me. (sarcasm)

Feminism, speaking as a feminist, is about no longer allowing men to control women.


Don't take it as offense but your avatar seems to pretty much reflect what a lot feminists wish to be. Strong jawlined, masculine looking man wanna be types who give up their femininity and try to force the rest of society to reflect their agendas while over 90% of the female population don't associate themselves with feminist ideas in other words feminists reflect a small but loud, extremist minority.


For gods sake, give it a rest. Get your s**t together and fix your life if you hate it, like the rest of us are trying to do.



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05 Jan 2018, 7:11 pm

Chronos wrote:
To be honest, I’ve been thinking a lot about the endless stream of typically young guys who come in here to vent their frustrations with dating. I, as well as others have often tried to help them, but I have come to the conclusion that we shouldn’t.

If a person with a pervasive social development disorder who knows they have such a disorder posseses such a level of cognitive dissonance that have redefined normal and average to pertain to themselves rather than admit they are outliers to avoid facing the reality that normal average people are dating marrying and having sex in en mass, and they are not, by virtue of the fact that they are socially delayed alone, and their shortcomings are internal rather than external, these are individuals who, in their present mindset, lack the capacity to grow as people and should not be in relationships because they are not at a place where they would be able to Maintain one. They lack the necessary social fitness And few of them seem to never acquire it due to There in ability to Look them selves in the mirror and admit that they are not average and the problem is with them and not anyone else. While they are here trying to distort statistics To meet their comfortable delusion, the bulk of the human population is doing as it always did, having relationships marrying having sex and perpetuating the human species.


Edit this into the first post and close the thread. Thread is over. Well done.



Aristophanes
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05 Jan 2018, 7:15 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Chronos wrote:
To be honest, I’ve been thinking a lot about the endless stream of typically young guys who come in here to vent their frustrations with dating. I, as well as others have often tried to help them, but I have come to the conclusion that we shouldn’t.

If a person with a pervasive social development disorder who knows they have such a disorder posseses such a level of cognitive dissonance that have redefined normal and average to pertain to themselves rather than admit they are outliers to avoid facing the reality that normal average people are dating marrying and having sex in en mass, and they are not, by virtue of the fact that they are socially delayed alone, and their shortcomings are internal rather than external, these are individuals who, in their present mindset, lack the capacity to grow as people and should not be in relationships because they are not at a place where they would be able to Maintain one. They lack the necessary social fitness And few of them seem to never acquire it due to There in ability to Look them selves in the mirror and admit that they are not average and the problem is with them and not anyone else. While they are here trying to distort statistics To meet their comfortable delusion, the bulk of the human population is doing as it always did, having relationships marrying having sex and perpetuating the human species.


Edit this into the first post and close the thread. Thread is over. Well done.

It's like a newt that grows it's tail back: another thread will pop up. Perhaps a better solution is a dating forum for men and a dating forum for women since no one actually wants advice, they just want to complain about the opposite sex. That's all these ever devolve into, it's actually more toxic than the PPR forum.



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05 Jan 2018, 7:24 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
Chronos wrote:
To be honest, I’ve been thinking a lot about the endless stream of typically young guys who come in here to vent their frustrations with dating. I, as well as others have often tried to help them, but I have come to the conclusion that we shouldn’t.

If a person with a pervasive social development disorder who knows they have such a disorder posseses such a level of cognitive dissonance that have redefined normal and average to pertain to themselves rather than admit they are outliers to avoid facing the reality that normal average people are dating marrying and having sex in en mass, and they are not, by virtue of the fact that they are socially delayed alone, and their shortcomings are internal rather than external, these are individuals who, in their present mindset, lack the capacity to grow as people and should not be in relationships because they are not at a place where they would be able to Maintain one. They lack the necessary social fitness And few of them seem to never acquire it due to There in ability to Look them selves in the mirror and admit that they are not average and the problem is with them and not anyone else. While they are here trying to distort statistics To meet their comfortable delusion, the bulk of the human population is doing as it always did, having relationships marrying having sex and perpetuating the human species.


Edit this into the first post and close the thread. Thread is over. Well done.

It's like a newt that grows it's tail back: another thread will pop up. Perhaps a better solution is a dating forum for men and a dating forum for women since no one actually wants advice, they just want to complain about the opposite sex. That's all these ever devolve into, it's actually more toxic than the PPR forum.


Or people can just admit the problem is them. I might be a b***h on here but at least I can admit the problem is me. Some people have absolutely no idea why people hate them.



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05 Jan 2018, 7:29 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
MissChess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
MissChess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
MissChess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
MissChess wrote:
sly279 wrote:
And there’s guys who see it as competition to sleep with as many women as they can, or sleep with every girl in their high school, or town. The whole notches on bed thing.

There are women who do the same thing. Of course, they have to accept that other people will call them whores and sluts for doing what men get called studs for doing.


There's many reasons for that, you cannot reasonably compare the two, it's not the same thing at all.

Many reasons for...what? Reasons that guys have sex with as many women as possible? Reasons why women have sex with as many guys as possible? Reasons why women and men are judged according to different scales?

If you want to tell me I'm wrong, please do and I'll happily discuss it with you. I'm just not able to determine, from what you've written, exactly which statements you're disputing.


Reasons why women and men are judged according to different scales.

Very many women can get sex very very easily, while only few guys can actually get sex easily. For guys, being very succesful is a requirement, or the small handful of guys who are just born incredibly handsome, but this percentage is very low: So in summary, for most guys it requires an incredible amount of work, or winning the genetic lottery to reach a place of easy access to sex. This is not the case for women. I would say probably 80-90 % of women could get sex easily, even if they were unemployed and broke.

Add to that, that even when the guy has the right foundation, it is still him who in 90% of cases has to initiate the conversation, be creative and charismatic to win over the woman. It is also still expected that the guy pays for eventual dates. There's a dissproportionate amount of effort and sacrifice, on every step of the way to the bedroom. It might be different for male moviestars and rockstars, but they are outliers to say the least, and it's not very useful to focus on something that only applies to 0.001% of all men.

So it is not so much having sex with the woman that is the achievement, it is all the hard work and achievements made to reach the point where the sex was even possible.
I know alot of you women will try to argue against what I'm saying here, but I think if you're completely honest with yourselves, you will agree that it is not the same, hence men get called studs, and women sluts. Not saying it's right or wrong, just exlaining why this is the case.

Interesting. I appreciate the clarification.

Yes, there's definitely a disconnect between the level of effort required for men vs. women to accumulate a large number of sexual partners. I have noted that many people put extra effort and attention into getting things that are more difficult for them to acquire, and sometimes wonder if the general perception that men want more sex/have a greater libido than women is due at least in part to that disparity. (If other words, in a society where men and women experienced sexual equality with regard to available partners and initiation of encounters, would men still want more sex than women?) I digress.

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying the reason men admire and envy other men who are more successful sexually is because of the awareness that they've had to work harder for it, while the same number of encounters is relatively easy for women to achieve and therefore not deserving of the same admiration. Yes?


Yep, you pretty much hit the nail on it's head.

So far, so good. What's missing in your interpretation, as far as I can tell, is the moral outrage that accompanies judgement of women who are sexually promiscuous.

A woman who enjoys sex with many partners isn't simply dismissed because it's easy for her to achieve that activity. She is looked down on and reviled. She is insulted. She's a whore, a slut, a slag, not fit to meet a man's parents, not fit to be a wife, on and on it goes. This shrieking and clutching of pearls is heaped on her by both men and women.

Yes, in the modern day we're more aware of the risks associated with sexual promiscuity, and I'm aware there's at least a fringe element beginning to judge men for this behavior as well - but there is not, nor has there been, any sort of parity in this arena.


That comes from the middle ages. I’m guessing a promiscuous woman is tarred as irresponsible and stupid as she’s the one who will be carrying any new life. Also it’s male instinct to want and have more sex. Back where this mindset originated, I would say it would have been shocking and offensive for a woman to be as such.

Men and women aren’t the same. In some cases, the thought of equality is ridiculous. If all was equal, there would only be one gender.

No sex outside of marriage was really important before contraception was invented. Nowadays it's just beating a dead horse.


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05 Jan 2018, 7:31 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
Chronos wrote:
To be honest, I’ve been thinking a lot about the endless stream of typically young guys who come in here to vent their frustrations with dating. I, as well as others have often tried to help them, but I have come to the conclusion that we shouldn’t.

If a person with a pervasive social development disorder who knows they have such a disorder posseses such a level of cognitive dissonance that have redefined normal and average to pertain to themselves rather than admit they are outliers to avoid facing the reality that normal average people are dating marrying and having sex in en mass, and they are not, by virtue of the fact that they are socially delayed alone, and their shortcomings are internal rather than external, these are individuals who, in their present mindset, lack the capacity to grow as people and should not be in relationships because they are not at a place where they would be able to Maintain one. They lack the necessary social fitness And few of them seem to never acquire it due to There in ability to Look them selves in the mirror and admit that they are not average and the problem is with them and not anyone else. While they are here trying to distort statistics To meet their comfortable delusion, the bulk of the human population is doing as it always did, having relationships marrying having sex and perpetuating the human species.


Edit this into the first post and close the thread. Thread is over. Well done.

It's like a newt that grows it's tail back: another thread will pop up. Perhaps a better solution is a dating forum for men and a dating forum for women since no one actually wants advice, they just want to complain about the opposite sex. That's all these ever devolve into, it's actually more toxic than the PPR forum.


Or people can just admit the problem is them. I might be a b***h on here but at least I can admit the problem is me. Some people have absolutely no idea why people hate them.

True, but no amount of discussion is going to make them see that, it's something they have to figure out on their own. As toxic as these discussions are they do more harm towards reaching that realization than good.



spaceone
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05 Jan 2018, 7:42 pm

More harm to who? Allowing the misogynist echo chamber to exist unchallenged is arguably more damaging to both the participants and any partner they may potentially meet than interjecting and possibly hurting someone's feelings may be.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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05 Jan 2018, 7:44 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
Chronos wrote:
To be honest, I’ve been thinking a lot about the endless stream of typically young guys who come in here to vent their frustrations with dating. I, as well as others have often tried to help them, but I have come to the conclusion that we shouldn’t.

If a person with a pervasive social development disorder who knows they have such a disorder posseses such a level of cognitive dissonance that have redefined normal and average to pertain to themselves rather than admit they are outliers to avoid facing the reality that normal average people are dating marrying and having sex in en mass, and they are not, by virtue of the fact that they are socially delayed alone, and their shortcomings are internal rather than external, these are individuals who, in their present mindset, lack the capacity to grow as people and should not be in relationships because they are not at a place where they would be able to Maintain one. They lack the necessary social fitness And few of them seem to never acquire it due to There in ability to Look them selves in the mirror and admit that they are not average and the problem is with them and not anyone else. While they are here trying to distort statistics To meet their comfortable delusion, the bulk of the human population is doing as it always did, having relationships marrying having sex and perpetuating the human species.


Edit this into the first post and close the thread. Thread is over. Well done.

It's like a newt that grows it's tail back: another thread will pop up. Perhaps a better solution is a dating forum for men and a dating forum for women since no one actually wants advice, they just want to complain about the opposite sex. That's all these ever devolve into, it's actually more toxic than the PPR forum.


Or people can just admit the problem is them. I might be a b***h on here but at least I can admit the problem is me. Some people have absolutely no idea why people hate them.

True, but no amount of discussion is going to make them see that, it's something they have to figure out on their own. As toxic as these discussions are they do more harm towards reaching that realization than good.


What's the solution, though? I don't think it would help or even be within the forum rules to prevent such discussions. Maybe there should be some kind of disclaimer added to L&D specifically, or automatically added to any post made in that forum? Or is it better just to ignore it?



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05 Jan 2018, 7:47 pm

It's just that people read statistics, and then say "Hey, that's me!" So the statistics confirm why they haven't been "successful" so far.

In order to find a decent woman, in my opinion, you have to throw the statistics in the garbage, and just relate to women as friends, rather than as "women." If guys make assumptions based on statistics, they'll lose every time.



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05 Jan 2018, 7:49 pm

I don't believe most guys here are true misogynists.

I just feel most guys are frustrated with their lack of success so far, and try to find a "reason why"----when there's probably no "reason" a lot of the time.

I sense that, most of the time, when it comes to making a connection with a person, it's luck.



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05 Jan 2018, 8:13 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe most guys here are true misogynists.

I just feel most guys are frustrated with their lack of success so far, and try to find a "reason why"----when there's probably no "reason" a lot of the time.

I sense that, most of the time, when it comes to making a connection with a person, it's luck.


The reason is probably their aspergers and terrible lack of self awareness.



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05 Jan 2018, 8:34 pm

spaceone wrote:
More harm to who? Allowing the misogynist echo chamber to exist unchallenged is arguably more damaging to both the participants and any partner they may potentially meet than interjecting and possibly hurting someone's feelings may be.

My point is: they aren't going to change no matter how hard you try to brow beat them into changing, in fact it just makes them dig their heels in more. Why not just break it up to alleviate stress. It has nothing to do with the politics of the situation and everything to do with this being a support forum that is currently not very supportive.



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05 Jan 2018, 8:55 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
That’s an interesting point. Why don’t some of you consider visiting a poorer country?

Sly, you think you’re hard done by, but your country is rich, your dollar is worth 0.7 of mine. I also live in a rich country, so you would not be poor in average or poor countries.

Didn’t you say you would spend $350 on a dating site membership? Why not start putting small amounts of money away to go and visit a place like Thailand?


I wouldn’t recommend Thailand. It has an authoritarian government, their criminal justice system is a joke (100,000-year prison sentenced?!?!). It‘s illegal to criticize the king, there‘s an ISIS-aligned rebel group in the southern part.

It‘s not like the movies, it‘s just your average third-world country.


What’s it like in the movies? There are other choices in that area. Fact of the matter is white men in rich countries are very sought after. Same with white women in rich countries, though the probability of the women dating a poor foreign man is pretty much 0.


I think some people have perceptions of countries like Thailand and the Philippines, based on generalizations about Asian women (that they're "submissive" and "sexually voracious"), when the reality is that these women sometimes resort to prostitution as a way out of often dire situations, or are forced into it, rather than love of the profession.


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