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Look out! It's a Nice Guy! DESTROY HIM!!

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Greb
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29 Jul 2013, 4:59 am

Schneekugel wrote:
Nope. The problem is you trying again to manipulate others to feel bad and put pressure about them, by blaming me for stuff I havent told.


Well, that's funny, because in the following paragraph you said

Schneekugel wrote:
When you talk about being forced to be in bad relationships, and I answer you that you are freely to decide your relationship partner, and so


And I don't remember to talk abot being forced in bad relationships. Could you please quote me? Because I suppose you're not blaming me for stuff I haven't told. Have your?

Schneekugel wrote:
You deciding freely. You responsible for free decisioned. You responsible if decision is wrong. Blaming the one not responsible for own wrong free decision = dumb.


Again. Could you quote me where I said that? I feel curious.

Schneekugel wrote:
Made opinion about forced Afghanistan marriage (= good or bad) None, because of not being part of topic.


Again, about quoting me where I said that and well, you know.

Schneekugel wrote:
He is as well a master of manipulation and telling others to be responsible for him "forced" to feel sad about absolutely everything, but at least he is so cute with his 3 1/2 years.


Well, about this manipulating, you know, just quoting where I said it exactly. Because I suppose you're not making it up, arent you?

And I'm not gonna tell you to prove you statement that I'm not cute. Don't want to overwhelm you :lol:

Schneekugel wrote:
Last time I was "responsible" for him "being forced to feel horrible" because the swimming pool not being warm enough for prince charming, because of being forced to sleep, and because of not being allowed to watch television instead of swimming and not getting more then one small bag of sweeties. I hope Amnesty International, never gets to know.


Too late. I'm affiliated to AI. We'll take action about it :lol:


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Kjas
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29 Jul 2013, 5:01 am

Greb wrote:
So. you're telling me that there's no difference in the behaviour between a nice guy and another guy whose behaviour you have described previously as 'not nice'.

Yeap, you're right. I'm missing the point. Indeed, I'm missing the whole post, because I just don't f***ing see how a 'nice behaviour' and a 'not nice behaviour' can be the same behaviour.


Because both are essentially based on the expectation of sex.

Nobody has a right to expect sex from anyone else (it is their body, therefore you have no rights or right to an expectation over their body and what they do with it), unless you have a spoken agreement with said person.
In both of these, there is no agreement.

I have to wonder how successful you have been at dating if you fail to understand such a basic concept as nobody has a right to expect sex from someone else.


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Greb
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29 Jul 2013, 5:04 am

Schneekugel wrote:
God, you are digging on your own dignity, because noone really thinking, that you wouldnt know the difference, so everyone knowing that you are simply trying to argue around and around,


So, if none is thinking, andI suppose you're not thinking it too, then... why you say it?. Do you use to say things that you don't think?

And everyone knowing... well, this quite a bit risky to say, that everybody knows that you're saying something that you're not really saying instead of what you're really saying.

Well, I'm kind of more simple than that. When I say something, I try to say what I'm trying to say, instead of saying something else and expecting the other person will guess what I think.

But you know, men, we're not that subtle.


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Greb
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29 Jul 2013, 5:11 am

Kjas wrote:
Greb wrote:
So. you're telling me that there's no difference in the behaviour between a nice guy and another guy whose behaviour you have described previously as 'not nice'.

Yeap, you're right. I'm missing the point. Indeed, I'm missing the whole post, because I just don't f***ing see how a 'nice behaviour' and a 'not nice behaviour' can be the same behaviour.


Because both are essentially based on the expectation of sex.

Nobody has a right to expect sex from anyone else (it is their body, therefore you have no rights or right to an expectation over their body and what they do with it), unless you have a spoken agreement with said person.
In both of these, there is no agreement.

I have to wonder how successful you have been at dating if you fail to understand such a basic concept as nobody has a right to expect sex from someone else.


Fine.

So I suppose that a woman in a second or third date with a guy she likes and looks to like her... Friday night... the house is free... wow... imagine she wears some lingerie and....

STOP!! !!

She doesn't have a spoken agreement to have sex. She's wearing lingerie? She's expecting to have sex this night??????

CRIME!! !! !!

How she dared??????? A law, please, a law against women wearing lingerie in a date with a guy with whom she doesn't have a previous spoken agreement of having sex!! !! ! :lol:


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Tyri0n
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29 Jul 2013, 6:27 am

Greb wrote:
Kjas wrote:
Greb wrote:
So. you're telling me that there's no difference in the behaviour between a nice guy and another guy whose behaviour you have described previously as 'not nice'.

Yeap, you're right. I'm missing the point. Indeed, I'm missing the whole post, because I just don't f***ing see how a 'nice behaviour' and a 'not nice behaviour' can be the same behaviour.


Because both are essentially based on the expectation of sex.

Nobody has a right to expect sex from anyone else (it is their body, therefore you have no rights or right to an expectation over their body and what they do with it), unless you have a spoken agreement with said person.
In both of these, there is no agreement.

I have to wonder how successful you have been at dating if you fail to understand such a basic concept as nobody has a right to expect sex from someone else.


Fine.

So I suppose that a woman in a second or third date with a guy she likes and looks to like her... Friday night... the house is free... wow... imagine she wears some lingerie and....

STOP!! !!

She doesn't have a spoken agreement to have sex. She's wearing lingerie? She's expecting to have sex this night??????

CRIME!! !! !!

How she dared??????? A law, please, a law against women wearing lingerie in a date with a guy with whom she doesn't have a previous spoken agreement of having sex!! !! ! :lol:


Since when does what someone wears have anything to do with whether or with whom that person wants to have sex?

That's ridiculous.



Greb
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29 Jul 2013, 6:33 am

Tyri0n wrote:
Since when does what someone wears have anything to do with whether or with whom that person wants to have sex?

That's ridiculous.


Really? :lol:


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MjrMajorMajor
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29 Jul 2013, 6:51 am

Greb wrote:
MjrMajorMajor wrote:
I think it's more about the engaging and friendly behavior ending abruptly when it becomes obvious that the male in question Isn't getting what he was seeking. As Kjas mentioned, badmouthing the girl suddenly because she didn't fall in line.


And what's the problem with that? when he has accepted the responsability of staying with you?

Usually 'nice guys' try to flirt showing how they would behave as boyfriends. It's not the most effective way to flirt, of course, but... 'unacceptable'? What's the problem with it? If you want it, you buy it, if you don't want it, you don't buy it. Dammit, it's simple. And don't tell me that women are inocent victims that are fooled. They know the game.

What? You want to have a guy for free without 'buying' him? And if he doesn't agree then it's 'unacceptable'?

C'mon


He can accept whatever responsibility he wants, but there is still no guaranteed outcome. He can flourish an engagement ring on the first date too, but that doesn't guarantee him wedding bells or a relationship. Not much game in that anyway-flirting is supposed to be fun for both parties.

What if I don't want the guy at all? He can disagree all he wants with that decision, but to not accept the decision is unacceptable.



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29 Jul 2013, 6:53 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Image

DIE NICE GUYS DIE!


Boo, are you posting steroid enhanced guys again? :shameonyou:



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29 Jul 2013, 7:01 am

Greb wrote:
Fine.

So I suppose that a woman in a second or third date with a guy she likes and looks to like her... Friday night... the house is free... wow... imagine she wears some lingerie and....

STOP!! !!

She doesn't have a spoken agreement to have sex. She's wearing lingerie? She's expecting to have sex this night??????

CRIME!! !! !!

How she dared??????? A law, please, a law against women wearing lingerie in a date with a guy with whom she doesn't have a previous spoken agreement of having sex!! !! ! :lol:


They may have sex, but there is no obligation to it. The guy can perfectly refuse it if he wants to, and the woman should not get angry because at no point did he say he wanted to have sex. And in reverse too; sometimes things do work out for guys, and well, good for them, but if they feel "cheated" when they don't then there is that expectation attitude going underneath.

And to reiterate previous points, bad boys and "nice guys" both have the underlying expectations attitude, the variation is on the approach they take.


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Greb
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29 Jul 2013, 7:16 am

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
He can accept whatever responsibility he wants, but there is still no guaranteed outcome. He can flourish an engagement ring on the first date too, but that doesn't guarantee him wedding bells or a relationship. Not much game in that anyway-flirting is supposed to be fun for both parties.

What if I don't want the guy at all? He can disagree all he wants with that decision, but to not accept the decision is unacceptable.


Interesting. So there's no guaranteed outcome. Fine, let me look back for some post where a guaranteed outcome is expected...

Yeap, here is it:

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
I think it's more about the engaging and friendly behavior ending abruptly when it becomes obvious that the male in question Isn't getting what he was seeking.


So basically this is a claim because the girl doesn't get the outcome she was expecting.

Could you quote me, where have I said that a guy should be guaranteed of a expected outcome when meeting a girl? Because I don't remember.

Have I protested about a guy getting some outcome in a specific relationship? I don't remember neither.

So WTF is your lecture about? WTF are you talking about???

Don't make up f*****g stories in your mind. Quote, and argument. Not that complicated, duh?

Shatbat wrote:
They may have sex, but there is no obligation to it. The guy can perfectly refuse it if he wants to, and the woman should not get angry because at no point did he say he wanted to have sex. And in reverse too; sometimes things do work out for guys, and well, good for them, but if they feel "cheated" when they don't then there is that expectation attitude going underneath.

And to reiterate previous points, bad boys and "nice guys" both have the underlying expectations attitude, the variation is on the approach they take.


Don't tell me. Tell Kjas, who thinks that having expectations about what will happen in a date is UNACCEPTABLE (with caps). I was just applying her reasoning.


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Shau
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29 Jul 2013, 7:20 am

Tyri0n wrote:
Since when does what someone wears have anything to do with whether or with whom that person wants to have sex?

That's ridiculous.


Since a long time, if she's wearing lingerie and is inside of a house, alone, with a person.

Out in public? Perhaps not.



Greb
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29 Jul 2013, 7:23 am

Shau wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
Since when does what someone wears have anything to do with whether or with whom that person wants to have sex?

That's ridiculous.


Since a long time, if she's wearing lingerie and is inside of a house, alone, with a person.

Out in public? Perhaps not.


Out in public in a dinner with a date?

Naaaa, no relation, why should it have some relation? :lol:


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Jono
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29 Jul 2013, 7:27 am

Tyri0n wrote:
Greb wrote:
Kjas wrote:
Greb wrote:
So. you're telling me that there's no difference in the behaviour between a nice guy and another guy whose behaviour you have described previously as 'not nice'.

Yeap, you're right. I'm missing the point. Indeed, I'm missing the whole post, because I just don't f***ing see how a 'nice behaviour' and a 'not nice behaviour' can be the same behaviour.


Because both are essentially based on the expectation of sex.

Nobody has a right to expect sex from anyone else (it is their body, therefore you have no rights or right to an expectation over their body and what they do with it), unless you have a spoken agreement with said person.
In both of these, there is no agreement.

I have to wonder how successful you have been at dating if you fail to understand such a basic concept as nobody has a right to expect sex from someone else.


Fine.

So I suppose that a woman in a second or third date with a guy she likes and looks to like her... Friday night... the house is free... wow... imagine she wears some lingerie and....

STOP!! !!

She doesn't have a spoken agreement to have sex. She's wearing lingerie? She's expecting to have sex this night??????

CRIME!! !! !!

How she dared??????? A law, please, a law against women wearing lingerie in a date with a guy with whom she doesn't have a previous spoken agreement of having sex!! !! ! :lol:


Since when does what someone wears have anything to do with whether or with whom that person wants to have sex?

That's ridiculous.


Under normal circumstances, you're right. Whatever a woman wears does not indicate that she wants sex and nor does it entitle a man to expect sex from her. However, that is actually not the situation Greb just described above. If a woman invites you into her room, takes off all her clothes so that she's only wearing an underwear and and a bra, then climbs on top you, then what do you think she wants from you? Perhaps when she goes further and starts unzipping your pants, she still doesn't want to have sex? Now, don't get me wrong - either party has every right at any time to change their mind and say stop at any time and, obviously you have to stop when they do but I think you've misunderstood the situation that Greb is talking about here. He's not talking about a man assuming that a woman wants sex or expects sex based on what she's wearing. The situation he's just described above is actually a woman initiating sex with a man. Those are two different things.

Which brings me to another point:

@Greb You're being obtuse. Kjas was talking about a man expecting women to come home with him simply because he danced with them. How the bloody hell is a woman agreeing to a have a dance with a woman the same thing as initiating sex with him. Jeez.



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29 Jul 2013, 7:31 am

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Image

DIE NICE GUYS DIE!


Boo, are you posting steroid enhanced guys again? :shameonyou:


Because they're WP women's best friends :P, they come to save you from the Nice Guys.



Greb
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29 Jul 2013, 7:34 am

Jono wrote:
@Greb You're being obtuse. Kjas was talking about a man expecting women to come home with him simply because he danced with them. How the bloody hell is a woman agreeing to a have a dance with a woman the same thing as initiating sex with him. Jeez.


Aha...

And why the woman is initiating sex with him?

Did she got a spoken agreement, as Kjas understood as necesary to expect sex?

Whe she initiates sex, does she has already the spoken agreement? If she doesn't, is she initiating sex without expecting it?

Tell me, how it works, because I don't get it. How can you initiate something wihout expecting something?


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Last edited by Greb on 29 Jul 2013, 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

MjrMajorMajor
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29 Jul 2013, 7:34 am

Greb wrote:

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
I think it's more about the engaging and friendly behavior ending abruptly when it becomes obvious that the male in question Isn't getting what he was seeking.


So basically this is a claim because the girl doesn't get the outcome she was expecting.
.


Nope, it's an observation that the guy didn't get the outcome he was expecting. When the friendly behavior turns to ranting, sulking, or other unpleasantness there has to be a catalyst, and being shot down qualifies.

Shatbat: Yes, it applies equally to men and women. My experience is with men predominantly, so those are the references I draw from.