Consequences in "why to ask first"

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participating in this thread has made it obvious to me that a lot of men like to offer advice to women with the best of intentions but with little to no understanding of how rape actually works, and how most of us survivors did not experience the violent-stranger-in-a-dark-alley kind of rape. there are a lot of damaging myths out there about what constitutes rape and who commits rape, as well as what victims go through and what is helpful and not helpful, and i think it's really important to challenge those myths and inform people of the reality of rape if we truly want to decrease its prevalence.

i spent a lot of time yesterday putting this together--i hope some of you will read it and maybe put some thought into how to be a positive force for change without saddling survivors with more blame for what happened to them and continuing to put the onus on women to avoid getting sexually assaulted. if you truly care and want to help, please explore the following links, and listen when survivors speak about what happened to them. learn from those who have been where you have not.

the quote that i extracted from the first link explains well why listening to the stories of survivors is important and helpful:

http://rising.globalvoicesonline.org/bl ... s-of-rape/

@SA: I get that not all rapes are about 14yo girls sneaking out and getting drunk/high at parties. I also understand how "what was she wearing?" is viewed as victim-blaming.

I am curious about your opinion on something related. How do you reconcile rape accusations with due process? You can't just assume every guy that gets accused of rape is actually guilty.

Part of western justice systems is a presumption of innocense, which makes the system inherently unfriendly towards accusers of any crime. This is to ensure that those who are found guilty really are guilty, that the innocent are let go, that EVERY trial is fair, and that punishment fits the crime.

Is it possible someone could "change her mind" or "cry rape" for any reason? How do we deal with this in such a way that there is equal justice for both the accused and the accuser?

Personally, if I had my way, the justice system would favor rape accusers even if the accusation is false, the reason being the man shouldn't have tried to isolate her for sexual purposes in the first place. Being isolated in a situation in which she cannot call for help if needed doesn't look good for the attacker, and even if the accusation is false it's a stupid situation for a man to get into. Any other situation, for example, a woman's consent could be well-evidenced and she could be held liable on civil charges should false allegations be brought to light. Public opinion is already against the accused even if proven nothing criminal occurred. The advantage of structuring rape accusations this way is it doesn't rely on evidence that may be inherently impossible to produce and even accounts for the failure of police departments to handle reports appropriately.

Thoughts?

starvinartist and tarantella, once and for all for your stubborn minds:

- We understand how most rapes happen.
- We understand that most of them aren't by strangers.
- We understand that most of them don't happen in dark alleys.
- We understand that dress of codes make no difference.

But we will still advice our daughters/sons to not wear "f**k me" shirt to a college party or to get drunk anywhere and give them any safety tips that might save them from rape (or murder or theft) in some circumstances.

People should be able to wear whatever they want.

It doesn't invite anything.

I say may be perceived as invitation by sickos and you say I am saying it's invitation. lol

Bye, I ll only come back when you stop your accusatory "you're promoting rape culture" tone.
Anything we say is promoting that according to you, including common sense in safety tips to a child.

Sickos will do their thing or not no matter what someone wears.

Whilst I'm sure a certain subset of sickos might prefer to rape/whatever someone with a specific shirt on, that's probably so unlikely to even be of consequence.

I suppose you can say that, if I wore a, "I hate n****rs/Muslims/Jews/people" shirt around, then I'd be inviting violence too. But, that's still not a provocation, and the people who use violence against an idea or thought, are in the wrong.

the whole you should be able to wear what you want and not be raped, while should be true it just isn't sadly. just like you should be able to wear whateber you want without people thinking you are a hick, or gangster kid.

I I open carry my gun people assume it as aggressive or violent. or that I mad a soon to be shooter. yet I am none those. just carrying a gun doesn't make people on of those. yet society deems it so.

I use to shave my head and wear camo pants. but apparently that makes me look like a neo nazi. and people got upset and treated me wrong. so while a woman who dresses like a slut doesnt make her a slut or mean shes asking for it. and I would never treat or judge people like that, many others will. then add the guy who wants to rape someone. he uses this a justication to do so as those people being mean to me for my looks.

is any of this right now. shouldnt we be able to dress how we want yes. but that isn't how the world works. I wish we could change it I don't know how. I have just learned to accept it. don't go down dangerous streets dress in fancy clothes, chating on your 700 dollar phone wearing expensive jewlery. would wouldn't go thru parts of la bald wearing camo.

I don't go down dangerous streets, I don't wear inappropriate clothing. I wouldn't let my kids do so either. we all learn this. I thought my got weeds... California shirt was funny. those around me at work didn't. the over all theme is like it or not. people will judge you on what you wear. there are dangerous people who whill hurt you given a chance. I don't see how sugessting ways to avoid it is bad.

comparison, most murders are done by people you know. but there are still murders by strangers. so does helping me avoid those victim blame me. should we ignore the advice and let people be murder on the street just cause most happen in the house by a family/friend? "oh man thers a guy down that street with a knife he might stabe you" "psht fred, you so silly, i'm more likely to be stabbed by my younger brothers friend at home then by that guy down the street. and besides i should be able to go down there if I want"

I'm way more likely to get in a accident near my house then away. should my insurance only cover a 5 mile radios of my house, should I stop practicing safe driving outside that area?

also how can you victim blame a none victim? if my daughter has never been raped, then shes not a rape victim. I don't think any of the advice here was suggested to be told to a person after being raped, but to people who are going out to bars/culbs/parties. every time I went out i was told to be don't talk to strangers, keep an eye of my surrounds, dont eat drink stuff i find. though I was way more likely to be kidnapped by my uncle/aunt/dad. so was this adice blaming me?
why do we victim blame kids telling them not to talk to strangers or to walk home alone. shouldn't they be allowed to do so? shouldn't we teach adults not to kidnap kids?


as for the always side with the accuser no matter what. so if a lady who hardly knows me and was never alone with me goes and says I raped her, you would immediately side with her? seems like a poor justice system. public opinion will already be against me in that situation, I don't need the justice system against me too. not saying that every rape accuser is done, this just using it as a example of no matter what is bad.
like who here hasn't been accused of stealing something before? then it turns out you didn't.

all this thread and others do is make me even more afraid and anxious about going outside my room. what is really out there worth taking the risk for? :s