More Thought on Incels.

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And, IMO, this entire dynamic makes it difficult to achieve the kind of emotional intimacy that a good relationship requires. The job-interview-like dynamic is intrinsically inimical to emotional intimacy, because true emotional intimacy requires the freedom to be open and honest about oneself, whereas the job-interview-like dynamic is all about trying to impress the other person.

This is why I strongly prefer a friends-first approach -- where the friendship arises naturally from one or more emotionally significant common pursuits, NOT just as a means to a possible eventual romantic relationship.

Yep….friends first tends to be best.

You got your wires crossed brother. I never said Elliot Rodger, Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky were autistic? please show me where I wrote that??

Secondly the article says Mcleod and Schmegelsky were recognized by 4chan users as incels even if they didn't themselves openly declare any affiliation to any group, I was saying the signs are there.

The only evidence police have is membership to a gaming group with far right links https://www.vice.com/en/article/8xzzeb/ ... oys-report

In addition to gaming their school friends said they were loners and had no girlfriends
https://www.oxygen.com/crime-time/what- ... -wanted-in

I'm not saying I have hard data but I made an educated guess these two are both incels,

No, you never claimed any of those folks were Autistic, and nowhere in my post did I say you did.

Also, the original article you posted didn't say they "were recognized by 4chan users." That's not even how 4chan works. It said that while they were on the run, 4chan users were speculating on a motivation for their crimes:

From Reddit, the self-styled “front page of the internet,” to darker corners such as 4Chan, which hosts forums where users can post anonymously, online communities have been speculating over the suspects’ motive...On 4Chan, the two suspects are figured for “incels,”. That was the conclusion folks posting on 4chan came to regarding their possible motive, the same one you came to. 4chan users were figuring them to be incel, Reddit users seemed to figure them for right-wing extremists, to the lament of one presumably conservative poster.

I like facts. I see how quickly you assumed they were 'identified by 4chan profiles' which is not only incorrect, but not possible. 4chan is anonymous, no one has a profile and no one can accurately identify anyone else. (We still have no idea who/whom was behind QAnon and probably never will.)

What I was getting at is that if they were incel, or autistic, or gay, or conservative, or what have you, I feel it's inappropriate to take a label that has one meaning and rework its connotations. IF they had been Autistic, or figured for Asperger's by an online consensus, many folks would align Autism with violence, as if all autists are violent. We've seen this before, it still happens.

Autistic doesn't mean mass murderer. Neither does Incel. I'm critical of incels, but the term does not mean "young men without girlfriends who go on killing sprees." Your figuring them for incels reminds me of others who have figured killers for Autistic ('because that's what those people do'). That's why I took issue.

Though they may very well have been incel...or even autistic...or something else.

I don't think any of these photographed on this thread were autistic. But they may have been?
Friends described the two Canadians as shy/quiet and having few friends but there is no evidence that anybody thought they were weird, Infact the opposite.

The point of my post is to indicate the media is much more quick to label incels as "dangerous" than young males with autism, There are traits which I mentioned that incels are typically stereotyped as having.

I think that is far better than dating. It allows enough time to bond without a need to make a commitment.

That's the problem. Negative stereotyping. It's happened with autism before.

As for incels, I think a lot of the online communities are toxic. But I think it was Fnord who pointed out the correct definition: someone who is Involuntarily Celibate...regardless of their beliefs or feelings or personal philosophy.

And if you go back to one of my earlier posts I was at great pains to distinguish a person who fits that definition (which I self-disclosed I was once an involuntary celibate in my 20s) Vs somebody who is culturally an "incel" which is having far-right and misogynistic beliefs and a propensity to act violently with weapons. The latter is only a very small percentage of those who are incel.

Exactly. I think this is why many autistics dislike dating.



The problem with "friends first" is that you are not honest about your intentions. Particularly if things start with a crush. There is also the risk that one of the people involved actually sees it as a friendship only while the other thinks it is the beginning of a relationship, something that can go really bad. People that use "friends-first" at least should be honest about their intentions & expectations.

I certainly prefer the distance observation approach, which works well in activity groups, and that is regardless if it leads anywhere or not. Actually, the procedure itself is highly enjoyable and so I'd engage in it regardless of how it might end, as long as there is mutual interest.

So, even if they had girlfriends or were lovers, you'd still call them incel? Or is the term reserved for violent virgins? Already, the term is being redefined.

EDIT: Didn't mean to accuse you. A lot of people have had to work hard (and still do) to prevent the whole "ALL ASPIE'S ARE X"

X is usually negative. People who do bad or odd things but aren't actually autistic end up labeled as such in a "cultural" sense, as you put it, the the connotations of an actual, real condition become lumped in with inaccuracy.

There is little we can do to stop what other people think of us. But we can take ownership of our own identity as individuals.

↑ I listened to about 5 minutes of the video inside the video-- 5 minutes of my life that I wish I could live over again while not listening to the video.  The commentator is not the problem.  It is the self-professed incel she comments on who disgusts me.

That guy ought to...

1. Lose some weight.
2. Get a haircut.
3. Stop being an entitled misogynistic jerk.

... and most importantly...

4. Spend 5 minutes on YouTube on how to dress...

I guess that's the result when a colour-blind person tries to emulate Jeff Bridges in The Big Lebowski.

Well since my brother is incel, and keeps saying that he doesn't want to bother to try to keep getting women, is he right though and it will just not work so why bother?

Does this mean he is just suppose to be miserable for the rest of his life, and the only thing he can do is patiently wait till he dies, and then it will be over?

What does it mean to "keep getting women"? Keep getting them from some mysterious source of women and then collecting them? Or discarding them?

The right thing to do would be to live his life, meet people, have friends, a job, a hobby... single or in a relationship, there's a lot of life to live.