aside from sperm, what good are men?

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AspE
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12 Jul 2016, 3:03 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Chimps are more evolved biologically.

No such thing as "more evolved".

Jacoby
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12 Jul 2016, 3:44 pm

wilburforce wrote:

Actually, it's possible we are genetically closer to bonobos than chimps.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 11128.html

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5794988/are-huma ... s-changing

What do you think? I mean I think the proof is kind of in the pudding as far as the similarities of chimpanzee behavior and human behavior which I don't think are present in any other species of animals. It's not just the violent antisocial behavior as chimps are pretty sophisticated animals with their use of tools as well which is not known in wild bonobos. They're both the two closest Human relatives so I'm not sure if it matters which one we're closer related to genetically when we exhibit behaviors that are only found in chimps, I feel like there is somewhat of a want for humans to be closer related to bonobos than chimps and these sources talk about wanting to change the narrative which kind of suggests an agenda to me. If humans were more like bonobos I'd think the whole course of human evolution would be different, competition of territory and resources seem definitive when it comes to humanity rather than the cooperative sexual behaviors of bonobos. If humans were more like bonobos then why did they leave Africa in the first place? I don't see human society as something disconnected from evolution.

The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Jul 2016, 3:44 pm

AspE wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Chimps are more evolved biologically.

No such thing as "more evolved".

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/4077 ... an-humans/

rdos
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12 Jul 2016, 3:48 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Humans are most closely related to chimps who are super aggressive male dominated who rape, wage war(coordinated assaults), and kill for no reason(not for food or a threat)

No, NTs are most closely related to chimps, but NDs are not.

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12 Jul 2016, 3:50 pm

rdos wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Humans are most closely related to chimps who are super aggressive male dominated who rape, wage war(coordinated assaults), and kill for no reason(not for food or a threat)

No, NTs are most closely related to chimps, but NDs are not.

We certainly don't seem like bonobos if that's what you're going for, we seem less cooperative and less sexual than the general population

The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Jul 2016, 3:51 pm

Jacoby wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

Actually, it's possible we are genetically closer to bonobos than chimps.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 11128.html

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5794988/are-huma ... s-changing

She is trying hard to prove that humans are more naturally matriarchal - but socially and violent-wise we are indeed closer to chimps, not to bonobos.
And our sexual dimorphism is indeed a proof of that no matter how much we deny it.

Btw they found limited polygyny in primitive present gatherer-hunters communities too; it is not true that they are matriarchal.

wilburforce
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12 Jul 2016, 3:52 pm

Jacoby wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

Actually, it's possible we are genetically closer to bonobos than chimps.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 11128.html

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5794988/are-huma ... s-changing

Didn't you just say the other day you're not interested in anything I have to say and that I'm a terrible person? Have you forgotten the nasty things you said about me? I have not. I simply wanted to provide the above information since people always bring up other higher order primates (and make incorrect inferences about their behaviour) when talking about human dating behaviour because it's easy to compare us to animals and difficult to consider the behaviour of sentient individuals that varies and contains subtleties that animal behaviour does not. I don't want to share my opinions with you personally, just wanted to correct your error for the sake of others reading the thread so as not to allow the propagation of misinformation. Feel free to continue the discussion without my further input.

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wilburforce
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12 Jul 2016, 3:54 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

Actually, it's possible we are genetically closer to bonobos than chimps.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 11128.html

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5794988/are-huma ... s-changing

Do not presume to speak for me. I am not trying to prove anything, and quoting me through other people and responding to me that way is a transparent way to attempt to get around the fact that I have asked you not to speak to me and you are incapable of respecting that. Just leave me alone, please.

Jacoby
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12 Jul 2016, 4:07 pm

wilburforce wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

Actually, it's possible we are genetically closer to bonobos than chimps.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 11128.html

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5794988/are-huma ... s-changing

You've said plenty of nasty things towards me too but I choose not to and try not to hold grudges with people on the internet because I have plenty of real **** in my life to worry about, I see this forum stuff as a nice distraction from all that awfulness because it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things does it? You don't know me and I don't know you so it doesn't make much sense for me to hold on to things like that and I would think the same for you but I really do apologize if I so injured you like that since I was content at leaving that squashed. A recurring issue you've always brought up is that you perceive that people don't listen to you and I literally just asked you right what opinion on something is because I'm genuinely curious since it's an interesting discussion but I guess I just can't win with you.

The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Jul 2016, 4:17 pm

Quote:

Humans are most closely related to chimps who are super aggressive male dominated who rape, wage war(coordinated assaults), and kill for no reason(not for food or a threat)

No, NTs are most closely related to chimps, but NDs are not.

We certainly don't seem like bonobos if that's what you're going for, we seem less cooperative and less sexual than the general population

This study shows that contemporary hunter-gather societies have more polygynous practices (even low in most tribes) than polyandry.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3083418/

Polygyny is indeed a more chimp-like thing; while bonobos are more egalitarian polygamous ....that doesn't mean that humans aren't evolving to be more monogamous though. Male bonobos are still bit bigger than females, which is a characteristic of polygynous species, but probably those are remnant traits from their ancestor species.

If I recall right, it was theorized that drought + extinction of gorillas in their area were the main 'drives' of bonobo evolution from patriarchal chimps to matriarchal species.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 12 Jul 2016, 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lidsmichelle
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12 Jul 2016, 4:18 pm

The spread of misinformation with people who believe PUA bullsh*t is inevitable. I still hear people referencing wolf behavior, even though wolves are canines and that supposed behavior they exhibit they only exhibit in captivity. In the wild wolves are largely monogamous and form family units, and rather than fight for dominance, when male wolf pups grow up they leave and form their own family units like the female ones. Yet I still hear that alpha male wolf bullsh*t from people. I also still hear idiots say humans who are gay are unnatural because animals don't have same gender sex, but that's also blatantly untrue. Almost all species of animals have displayed homosexual tendencies. People like spreading misinformation that furthers their beliefs and cause.

And people forget at the end of the day, regardless of common ancestry, humans are our own species and exhibit our own set of unique behaviors. We aren't chimps. We aren't bonobos. And we aren't wolves.

There are human cultures that more closely resemble bonobo culture anyways. Monogamy and violence aren't implicit attributes in humans. Not much is in terms of wants and behaviors. I'm told everyone wants sex and children, but I don't want either. Most people I am friends with don't want children either.

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Last edited by lidsmichelle on 12 Jul 2016, 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alliekit
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12 Jul 2016, 4:20 pm

So are we concluding men are way more than just sperm. Because I love having a man in my life for more reasons then I could express

The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Jul 2016, 4:21 pm

lidsmichelle wrote:

The spread of misinformation with people who believe PUA BS is inevitable. I still hear people referencing wolf behavior, even though wolves are canines and that supposed behavior they exhibit they only exhibit in captivity. In the wild wolves are largely monogamous and form family units, and rather than fight for dominance, when me wolf pups grow up they leave and form their own family units like the female ones. Yet I still hear that alpha male wolf BS from people. I also still hear idiots say humans who are gay are unnatural because animals don't have same gender sex, but that's also blatantly untrue. Almost all species of animals have displayed homosexual tendencies. People like spreading misinformation that furthers their beliefs and cause.

And people forget at the end of the day, regardless of common ancestry, humans are our own species and exhibit our own set of unique behaviors. We aren't chimps. We aren't bonobos. And we aren't wolves.

There are human cultures that more closely resemble bonobo culture anyways. Monogamy and violence aren't implicit attributes in humans. Not much is in terms of wants and behaviors. I'm told everyone wants sex and children, but I don't want either. Most people I am friends with don't want children either.

Humans are primates, not canines, wolves are indeed a more egalitarian species.

Female wolves are as strong as a male wolves.

RetroGamer87
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12 Jul 2016, 5:11 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

But the "top 20%" don't have sex with "80% of women."

They just don't.

I have to agree with you Kraftie. That sounds like a made up statistic. Citation needed!

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12 Jul 2016, 5:23 pm

Aspie1 wrote:

There's even a theory about why terrorism is so prevalent in Islam. It's the only mass religion that allows polygyny, I think up to four wives each, which matches the 20/80 rule from earlier. So the top 20% of men snag up four desirable wives each. Next 20% of men find one wife they begrudgingly settle for. This leaves 60% of men alone and angry. And what happens when they're angry, and want to feel like alpha males at least briefly? Al Qaeda, ISIS, and storming off to Germany and Sweden to wreak havoc.

Don't forget that in the Middle East, these angry, horny young men have never even seen a woman's face! They've never seen any part of a woman. On the one hand, they take morality to such extremes that even Queen Victoria would tell them to lighten up but on the other hand, their descriptions of the afterlife read like soft core porn.

Their 72 virgins aren't human women but angles, perfect Amazons who walk around nude and perform any sexual act their master wishes. The Bible promises you a mansion but the Quran one ups the Bible by giving you your own personal garden more than a thousand miles wide.

So no wonder these horny, impoverished young men from the desert want to live in a lush garden with rivers and lakes and waterfalls. No wonder these men who've never seen a woman's face want to go to the afterlife which resembles a porno movie.

Hell, I've done some really stupid things when motivated by lust. I've done some dumb things in pursuit of women I was attracted to and lost money that way. I can only image what I'd be willing to sacrifice if I was about 100 times as sexually frustrated. Maybe even my life.

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12 Jul 2016, 5:31 pm

lidsmichelle wrote:

You alpha male s**t is not accurate lol. It's not evolutionarily how anything works. That's PUA pseudoscience. Women on a whole are more attracted to more sensitive, caring, and emotional men.

In many other species this is the case too. Look at bonobos. They're very sexual, essentially have lots of casual sex (and lots of gay sex and have oral sex), and they cast violent males out of their societies.

Why are men who are socially inept so obsessed with the concept of alpha males. Just accept that people are judgmental when it comes to things like mental and developmental disorders. It's not because you're "beta" it's because you're acting different than what humans expect other humans to act and it makes people uncomfortable. It's sh***y, and it's obviously not your fault if it's symptoms of your aspergers, but it's not proof of some alpha male conspiracy.

Correct. Alpha males are for wolves, not men. What these socially inept men need to realize is that there's nothing different about them aside from their social anxiety.

They think that they have social anxiety because they're less than other men but the real cause is they have social anxiety because they have social anxiety. It's like a positive feedback loop. In other respects they're the same as other men.

Maybe they're not as successful in career as other men but then it's the same cause. If they don't perform as well at work it's not because they're any less than they're colleagues, it's because they think they're less and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Thinking about how you're not alpha will use up all of your brain power that would be better spent chatting up girls or being productive at work.

Chasing after girls is useless because first impressions are everything. She'll size you up and make up her mind in about 30 seconds. She won't tell you, however.

So if you have a hard time getting the girl, don't bother. She's not into, you already decided that ages ago. The girls who will date you are the ones who make it easy for you.

Remember that girls want to pair up just as much as guys do. So for a guy they're into, they won't make it difficult.

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