Shebakoby wrote:
Roman wrote:
Shebakoby wrote:
Perhaps the root of all this is perhaps Jennifer is not Jewish?
So why not be honest and straightout say "Jennifer is not Jewish so I don't want you dating her". The funny thing is that within this whole time she knew about Jennifer, which was now over a year, she never once mentioned anything about her not being Jewish. Instead, somewhere, somehow something was inconvenient so for some weird reason I couldn't do this or taht with Jennifer just now. And I left wonder why.
Perhaps she didn't want to be obvious that this was the reason? You never know. .
And that is exactly the point. If my mom were to tell me that Jennifer is not Jewish, I would argue with her and prove that this is not important. But if she won't admit that, what can I possibly do? Thats what bothers me about ppl in general. Why conceal? If they are so sure they are right, then they would be able to defend themselves in HONEST discussion, so what are they afraid of? If they are NOT sure they are right, why not have a discussion so that they can TEST their assumptions? So apparently they ARE sure they are right and believe their assumptions don't need any testing, and, at the same time, somehow, feel that HONEST discussion will be more misleading than concealing things.
Do you see the parallel between the way my mom conceals her concern that Jennifer is not Jewish, and how Europe conceals the antisemitism?
Shebakoby wrote:
Geez. But Jennifer isn't really 'controlling' is she?
I just spent hours detailing my relationship with Jennifer which lasted almost two years. When I will have patience to finish the story, I will make a separate post on it.
Anyway, the bottom line is that yes, Jennifer was controlling, but not in the way my mom thinks.
1) I wanted to study physics and Jennifer wanted attention. That is true, and that is also what I told my mom. However, what I told my mom was VERY different from reality. In reality Jennifer wanted 4 apples and I was only willing to give her 3. What I told my mom is that Jennifer wanted 2 apples and I was only willing to give her 1. Since I was willing to give her 3 apples, my mom is WRONG for being so critical of Jennifer for demanding only 2. Also, my MAKING UP the 2 apple/ 1 apple story has NOTHING to do with 4 apple/ 3 apple one being right. The purpose of 2 apple/ 1 apple one is for my mom to LOVE Jennifer for ONLY asking for 2 apples, and also for her to CRITICIZE me for only being willing to give 1. Since the reason for my only being willing to give 1 is, presumably, that "I have to study physics", I would have taken such criticism as praize. In other words, 2 apple/ 1 apple is histrionics, while 4 apple/ 3 apple is reality. Histrionics has NOTHING to do with reality. I am so used to lying to my mom that if she asks me where I am my automatic answer will, almost always, be a lie. So, the fact that 4 is greater than 3 and 2 is greater than 1 is merely a coincidence.
2) When my mom wanted me to go to Ukraine and Jennifer wanted me to go to North Carolina, I lied to my mom that I, myself, wanted to go to Ukraine and I was only going to North Carolina because Jennifer was threatening to break up with me. So, according to this story, Jennifer was controlling. This was a lie. In reality I didn't have strong preference one way or the other; I simply wanted to go to Ukraine to please my mom; but I lied to my mom that I wanted to go there because *I* actually wanted to see the cultural things. HOWEVER, even though that was a lie, I STILL maintain that Jennifer was controlling. Why? Because to me experiencing my mom's anger is the worst thing ever, and Jennifer was FORCING me to face my mom's anger. Now, Ukraine and North Carolina is just one example. Then there was Christmass, Pass Over, etc. In every single situation it was the same thing: Jennifer WAS controlling for not allowing me to please my mom; but I LIED that she was controlling for not allowing me to do what I, on my own, would have wanted to do.
Shebakoby wrote:
Idiots that say stuff like that about Jews and Jesus Christ are forgetting where in the New Testament Jesus himself said, "Father FORGIVE THEM for they know not what they do."
Antisemites make me angry. Back then the anti-jewish propaganda was so hardcore that people believed all the nonsense they were told (the stereotypical stuff, from the RIDICULOUS 'blood libel', doubly idiotic given that in the Torah the Jews were forbidden to eat blood, to the ideas about Jews and Finance) and I think it went way deeper than just "Oh they killed Jesus Christ". The morons.
Actually the kind of antisemitism that you just mention doesn't piss me off. After all, they do NOT "ignore" the Jews; rather, they bring up specific claims that they have against them, and substantiate these claims. So if they are wrong, you can always sit down and refute them. On the other hand, the passive-agressive type, when Jews are simply IGNORED (such as when they IGNORE what Palestinians do to them) can not be refuted: what can you possibly do if someone refuses to open their eyes and see?
How come you won't find a person who insist that Jews killed Jesus Christ and AT THE SAME TIME insist on saying that Israel is right and Palestine is wrong? The fact that you won't find such a person reveals a human mindset in general: if person A decided that person B is guilty of X, then person A will ignore the issue Y whenever issue Y is in favor of person B. Yes you are pro-Israel, but you don't think that Jews killed Jesus Chrust on the first place, so it doesn't count. But if you take somebody who DID something wrong to you, and you konw for a fact that they did it, would you be willing to support them on some other issue?
Now let me explain why I am NOT pissed by antisemitism you described. What you described doesn't have anything to do with ignoring Y; it has to do with inventing Z. Well, inventing Z is fun. If Z is wrong, you can refute it. On the other hand, if Z is right, you have just learned something new. Well, don't you like to learn, even if you will learn something you don't like? Now, sure, ppl who invent Z will also ignore Y, and that is what pisses me off. But my true preference is for people to look both at Y and at Z, along with X, and THEN it would be an honest discussion with ALL sides of the story presented.
Actually, i believe that people who ignore the anti-Jewish evidence are guilty of the same thing as antisemites who ignore what Palestinians are doing to the Jews. Let me spell it out:
a) Person A believes that Jews killed Jesus Christ. Therefore, person A ignores what Palestinians are donig to Israelites
b) Person B feels sorry for what happened to the Jews during the holocaust. Therefore, person B ignores the biblical evidence against the Jews.
Don't you see the parallel? Ironically, if person C is politically correct, he will be BOTH person A and person B, at least to some extend! So why not stop IGNORING the issues on both sides, lay them all out, and see what will happen "on a balance"?
By the way, there are at least a couple of REAL reasons to dislike Jews. First of all, if you take non-Christian religions, such as Buddhism, then sure, they don't believe in Jesus, but at least they say that Jesus was a good person. Jews are one of the VERY FEW people who actually believe Jesus was a bad guy. On the other hand, if you take more liberal Jews then it is totally fine with them to get involved into Buddhism, or new age, as long as it is not christianity. The other reason to dislike them is that they pray for the comming of Messiah. Since their messiah is not Jesus, it is clearly antichrist. Now, true, other religions have their messiah too, which is also antichrist (such as mahdi in Islam) but Jews seem to mention the Messiah in all their prayers, and to them the messiah is far more central than to other religions. Speaking of antichrist, it is an interesting coincident that Jews were hated by 2 millenia. Only after the holocaust, WHICH IS PROBABLY LESS THAN A CENTURY BEFORE ANTICHRIST COMES, did they start to view the Jews positively. So, perhaps, this positive attitude towards the Jews is part of the "great delusion" that would come to full force under antichrist.
Then there is also the issue of Jews considering themselves to be better than others. I know that the politically correct response to that is that "we all" consider ourselves to be better than others and it is just a human nature. But take a Jewish prayer where they "thank God" that he "chosen them among all other nations", and imagine that the word "Jews" is replaced with the word "British", and British people came to their church and pray that. Wouldn't you think these British people are prejudiced? And also, take my mom's behavior which you agree with me is triggered by her being Jewish. How would you feel if a British mother believed her kid should only marry someone British, and who would lie and manipulate to the extend that my mom did in order to get them out of the relationship with someone French? There are also some verses in the Talmud which clearly depict non-Jews as animals (but again, I see both sides so I "remember" that most Jews, other than ultra-orthodox ones, probably don't believe these verses).
Finally, 1 Thess 2:15 states that the Jews killed Jesus Christ. I know that there is an "explanation" for that verse, namely that it was referring to SOME Jews rather than all Jews and also it never said ONLY Jews; so really we are all guilty, and Jews are simply a small subgroup of all the guilty ones. But then, by the same logic, if someone walks up to you and says "Jews killed Jesus Christ", he might also be referring to SOME Jews and he never said they are the only ones, either; so why are you mad at him? In fact, most people who are viewed as antisemitic openly stress that they do not oppose all Jews but only some Jews. So why do you insist on not believing them and claiming they hate every single Jew if they, themselves, claim that such is not the case? So, by your very anger, you admit that you should not insert "some" or "not only" in phrases such as "Jews killed Jesus Christ". So, then, you should be consistent and not insert it in 1 Thess 2:15 either; and, in this case, the logical conclusion is that, as insulting as that person might be, he happened to be right. On the other hand, if you do insert "some" and "not only" in 1 Thess 2:15, you should be consistent and do the same while listening to the antisemite, in which case you are not in a position to be mad at him either. You can't have it both ways.
However unlike others, I still "remember" all the pro-Jewish things as well. In particular, that it was Palestinians who started the conflict. So REGARDLESS of the above three paragraphs, I will STILL side iwth Jews in Israeli Palestinian conflict thing. In fact, EVEN IF Jews were as horrible as Hitler depicts them, WHICH THEY ARE NOT, I would still be siding with them as far as Israeli Palestinian conflict goes! The reason I try to stress this point is that it reveals a mindset of looking at EVERYTHING on both sides REGARDLESS of the opinion one has of either side. Thus, if there is a class, and you do A job on a test, you will get an A, even if the teacher remembers that you got F on the previous test.
But unfortunately this doesn't work in real life. In real life if teacher remembers the F from previous test, she wont give A on next one. Thats why you have to convince the teacher to FORGET about F in previous test. But thats like two wrongs making it up to right:
1) The teacher
still forgets to give an A to the students whose F she DOES remember
2) The teacher
forgets an F of student X, which is the only reason why student X gets an A
Thus, as a result of 1, people who continue to believe that Jews killed Jesus Christ also continue to FORGET what Palestinians are doing to the Jews. And, as a result of 2, more and more people FORGET that Jews killed Jesus Christ, which is the ultimate source of support for Israel.
But why should we make people to forget twice more? Didn't they already forget enough? By "curing" one forgetfulness with the other one we are only reinforcing a mindset that an argument can be won through forgetting the other side instead of refutting it. Instead of doing mistake of part 2, we have to simply get rid of part 1! Once we teach people NOT to forget ANYTHING, then both sides can have a fair benefit of being able to present their side of the story and defend it.
By the way, speaking of how Jews have economical control over media, if you think of this issue in connection with Israeli Palestinian conflict, there are TWO things wrong with it:
a) Non-Jewish americans are antisemitic since they would NOT have sided with Israel if it wasn't for the Jewish activists
b) Jews have too much power: FOR EXAMPLE, they managed to convert most Americans into pro-Israel views
Now you see how in this example I just took both sides of the coin into the consideration? Being pro-Israel myself, I think it is great that America supports Israel. But, at the same time, I also used this very thing as an example of something I don't like, which is, Jewish power in USA. That is probably something no one besides me would ever be able to do.
This really reminds me of something else. When I was in graduate school, I was working with professor Tomozawa for a month and a half. He then refused working with me because I kept comming to his office with stupid questions when I was asking him to find my mistakes in calculations involving freshman calculus. Now, when he refused working with me for that reason, I was then trying to counter-argue him by saying that I know freshman calculus, if I didn't, how would I have made it to graduate school? The only reason I was asking him questions is to save time. The evidence that I know freshman calculus is that I NEVER have to come to him on Monday asking him questions that I got over the weekend. Why not? Because i answer them myself! But when he is there I have to ask him.
Now, he was one of the few people who actually was countering my arguments, raising voice like I did, etc. so that would have been the kind of HONEST debate I am looking for. Unfortunately, my mom was with me at the office and as she was trying to interrupt me and him I had an outburst where I just started swearing and yelling "yes I am ret*d I forgot all the Freshman calculus" and that is what ended a discussion.
Now, going back to the subject, after we got out of the office my mom told me that it was a bad idea to counter his arguments. What I should have said is LETS FORGET IT whenever he brings up the questions business and instead tell him how much I love physics. THAT is exactly the part I don't agree with. Why should I say "lets forget it"? Why should anything be forgotten? Things should be REFUTTED, not forgotten! And yes I like physics, in fact it is my life time goal since I was 9 years old; but I would never bring it up in THAT argument? WHy not? Because it is IRRELEVENT to the issue of whether or not I know freshman calculus, just like the issue of Jews killing Jesus Christ is irrelevent to Israeli Palestinian conflict.
By the way, don't you see the similarity between my mom wanting to say "lets forget it" to Tomozawa in the above argument, and her "forgetting" Jennifer's side of the story due to Jennifer being non-Jewish? Even though my mom happened to be on my side in the former and not the latter, I disagree with her on both.
Shebakoby wrote:
Jesus Christ died for our sins, and this was necessary, so why blame the descendants of the people that killed him? Without that death, we'd all still be LOST! It makes no freaking sense.
When Jesus was speaking of Judas Escariot, he said "it is impossible that no offence comes, but woe it is to him through whom the offence comes". The logic says the same might apply to the Jews. After all, the Jews were blinded as a result of their rejection of Jesus, weren't they?
But again, this is completely irrelevent to Israeli Palestinian conflict. Palestinians are the ones who caused it, period. So why close the eyes on this because of something else?
And, by the way, I would LOVE it if there was a church whose paster IN THE SAME SERMON was to insist that Jews have a guilt of killing Jesus Christ, and AT THE SAME TIME insist that Jews CONTINUE to be God's chosen people because of Abraham. In other words, Jews have a "progress report" with ALL their grades STILL counting towards GPA. One of the grades is A for what Abraham did, and the other grade is F for what they did to Jesus Christ.
Most people ignore one or both of these grades. If anyone wants to give them an F for what they did to Jesus Christ, he will have to ignore an A for what Abraham did. On the other hand, if one wants to give them an A for what Abraham did, he will have to ignore the F for what they did to Jesus Christ. My question to both of them is why? Why should one grade be ignored in order to remember the other one? Progress report has dates on it, right? So recording both an A and an F is not so confusing.
Now I konw that this kind of issue is adressed, for example, in Galatians where a Jew and a gentile is referred to as "one new man", and wall of partition is broken. But, for the sake of the argument, lets imagine that Galatians and other such books were not in the bible. But, at the same time, imagine that both pro-Jewish verses (such as Gen 12:3 and 7:6-8 ) and anti-Jewish ones (such as John 8:44, Matt 23, and 1 Thess 2:15) were still there. Since, in this hypothetical case, there is no book of Galatians, there is no concept of dispensations, which means both Old and New testaments are equally applicable to this time. So, in this case, what would Christians do? Will they ignore Gen 12:3 because of 1 Thess 2:15 or will they ignore 1 Thess 2:15 because of Genesis 12:3? If they will do either of the two (which I bet they will) that is the exact issue I have with them. Why can't they remember BOTH groups of verses and then have a long, involved, discussion on what would happen "on a balance"?
Shebakoby wrote:
Oh yeah. Oh hey, have you seen "Obsession: The Movie"? There's clips of it on Youtube, it is very informative. From it I learned that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem back in World War II collaborated with Hitler to kill Jews. He even recruited an entire brigade of Bosnian Muslims for the German army. If you ever wondered why some of the Palestinian Militants seem a lot like fascists...
I don't have my own video. Can you give me utube link?
10 Oct 2009, 12:59 am
