Could you be loved?

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Finding someone who loves you (and you love in return) is hard because there's little you can do to make it happen. But the most important thing is the long term, keeping everything going as smoothly possible.

@Shadwell - No requirement to abstain from liquor as far as Al-Anon is concerned. It's really about support for the families of alcoholics, and how to deal with the wreckage caused by alcoholism. Like I said - they're your people - and your people will not judge you for having a beer.

I found this on Wiki, about love maps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovemap

That dosen't have anything to do with actual love from what I see on that article. But I do think it's awesome that his last name is actually Money!

I posted the link, because the article cites some resources in case people wanted to do further reading. and yeah, the name Money is a rather ironic twist!

What about the actual school of therapy? Do you go Behavioral or Insight? Some reckon that Behavioral (eg CBT) works better for Aspies. I was told (by experienced therapists that I used to get to meet through my ex-wifes social circle) that CBT wouldn't work for me as I was "too intelligent". Then recently I read that in general *all* therapy works less well as intelligence increases. Kind of like "The Emperor's New Clothes" in reverse....Not much use for us as Aspies tend to be more intelligent than average. I don't actually believe intelligence has as much to do with the success of therapy as gullability..and the placebo effect.


I did all that alright. Spent 9 years seeing several of the most qualified, experienced, reputable therapists in my city. Little effect.


Yes, I agree. And "alleviating depression" was my main clear goal stated at the outset - and on my final visit, I expressed my disappointment that after all these years, I still had times feeling more depressed than ever. With most professions, you get your money back if the 'expert' doesn't achieve what was set out to be achieved. At best, I think therapists are grossly, obscenely overpaid for what they actually have to do, compared to the effort required to learn practical, provable skills like engineering and carpentry.

Research has shown several times that talking to *anybody* who is reasonably smart, and who will give validity and a caring ear to your story, will make you feel better.

The core problem seems to me know to be that our psychological issues do not exist just inside our heads independantly of a perfectly working world. Most people get miserable due to a miserable situation and it is *that* that needs addressing. However, here's the catch, we are also trapped in unsatisfactory life situations we cannot change. So I spent years talking to therapists about loneliness and isolation and getting nowhere. However, whenever my isolation lifted through some fortunate life circumstance, the depression lifts instantly and stays away for months!! It's not rocket science.....but it may be harder in that we have to see what is staring us at point blank reality, rather than getting trapped in the salespeak of 'experts' who are improving their life situation by exploiting yours. We prefer dreams to reality.


Anyway, regardless of my "I spent thousands on therapy and all I got was this bad attitude" rant, I think most NT'ssomehow manage to get in relationships, despite their flaws. Nobody is perfect and perhaps the idea that we aren't good enough and need to be perfect like the NT's just smashes our confidence even more. NT's are good at spinning illusions, underneath they are as insecure as any of us, they just hide it better - and don't seem to have such a strong internal model of integrity that their behaviour must comply with.

PS If there's a bigger bunch of charlatans in this world than the therapists, it can only be the self-appointed "Dating Gurus"

Another reason why I will never be so quick to jump on the "therapy" wagon, is the intelligence issue, mentioned by ManErg.

Looking back at failed therapeutic relationships, the main reason that they failed, was because in many instances, my intelligence level exceeded that of the therapist, despite their training. And unfortunately, I have had a few of them descend to emotional tantrums, dismissing me from their care while saying that I was "too much" for them. This was both bewildering and confusing, since I couldn't figure out what I had done wrong to be dismissed so summarily. I had the good fortune to finally hear, from an older male psychologist, that I would be better served to only accept counseling from therapists much older than me, who ideally would not become threatened by my intelligence.

Thank you. I'm feeling a lot happier today than yesterday - not back to "normal" just yet, but getting there.

oh but it does, unfortunately sometimes

I didn't even think about looking for a wiki article, that one is very to the point

@ManErg - To your quote, "Nobody is perfect and perhaps the idea that we aren't good enough and need to be perfect like the NT's just smashes our confidence even more. NT's are good at spinning illusions, underneath they are as insecure as any of us, they just hide it better - and don't seem to have such a strong internal model of integrity that their behaviour must comply with."

Who the heck said that Aspies aren't good enough and need to be perfect like NTs? First of all, NTs are not perfect - we're just as flawed as everybody else. Some of us are talented at "spinning illusions," some of us are insecure, some of us lack integrity. Believe, I've learned the hard way that those statements can be applied to Aspies and NTs alike.

The whole point of this thread is to point out that Aspies can better prepare themselves to participate in healthy, happy relationships. It's also to point out how Aspies can gain the skills they need to identify when a relationship is happy, healthy, productive, etc., so they don't have to rely on an NT partner for that. Too much damage can be done by the time an Aspie realizes that their NT partner is a nutball, or a beast, or a tormentor, or whatever.

@Hartzofspace, I guess I've been lucky with therapists, because I'm pretty smart and I've had more success than failure. That said, I don't doubt your experience....I'm just sorry that yours haven't been more positive. Thankfully, you've found other ways to move forward - that's what is important.

I know I can't ever be loved, so I gave up wanting to be loved.

I consoled myself with wanting to be wanted - but I'm not wanted either.

It's hard to console oneself to being unwanted you know.

Thanks! And yet, come to think of it, I am glad that my experience with therapists wasn't more positive. Only because it motivated me to work on my issues from inside. One thing with therapy, was that I was not learning much there, just mirroring the therapist and pleasing her, (a thing which I hear is very common amongst female aspies) so that it would all "rub off" as soon as I stopped seeing that therapist. Another thing, was the wrong diagnoses, which upset me and confused me.

Lol, I wish - that sounds rather nice right now. I'm usually more of a PPR frequent but I occasionally check this folder for content.


I think what sucks about my current situation is, having never been a long term relationship I've never had anything click long enough to know what's simply hypothetical in my mind and what isn't. I don't have any wacky stuff as far as standards, but I do tend much more toward the rare woman where when I'm in her presence I feel like I've known her a thousand years, some kind of energy exchange, or get that odd sense that we're of the same spirit family. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a new-agey kind of guy, its about the only way I can explain these feelings and I had a post in 'loneliness vs. weariness' where I really underscore why things would need to be on fire for me in terms of emotional/spiritual chemistry - otherwise having a wife and kids, even just a wife, would likely just about collapse me, which of course puts my urge to chase after women who I could perhaps feel something for...if I really conditioned myself to....really impractical.


The hardest thing to figure out is what you realistically can change about yourself and what you can't. The things I can change are liquid, the things I can't change - in theory I can change them but the more I wander off from my core self the more sapped, weary, gray, and generally lifeless I find myself becoming. The trick is knowing our boundaries, what things are in which zone, and of course it could just as easily turn out that many people literally can't have luck and will in fact never be with anyone if they're being true to themselves, my outlook on that - on the bright side if it does happen to me I won't be holding myself accountable, I'll have done everything I possibly could have for myself between now and then and - if my best is not enough - it gets to be enough of a joke where I have to remind myself that my life simply was not of my own making in such regards.

There's one big issue that I still have with, well, the rest of society... I still can't understand why said illusions have to be spun. It makes people look better than they really are and results in a lot of heartache when you don't live up to your selling points. That's why I'd rather be who I am, the good and the bad. And honestly that's how it should be... at least in my opinion anyway, obviously most of society disagrees with me if such "salesmanship" is so tolerated (and encouraged)...

Last edited by ToadOfSteel on 09 Mar 2010, 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

^ ^

I agree, about the "putting on a front" issue" I've seen so called dating manuals, where women are encouraged to pretend interest in something, in order attract a man. For example, if they want a "brainy" type, they should pretend interest in scientific things, go to conventions, etc. Or, if they like mechanical types, they are advised to go and hang around garages or auto parts stores. And I wonder, what if the guy finds out that they don't care for scientific or mechanical things at all? Why put up such a front? I don't get it!