26 Feb 2012, 6:58 pm
Thom_Fuleri wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Women communicate.
Men deal with it.
That's just how it is, and women should stop trying to make men behave like women!
Men deal with it.
That's just how it is, and women should stop trying to make men behave like women!
communication is a way of dealing with feelings and is thus under the same umbrella. so your arbitrary categorisation fails.
men and women aren't one way or an other. most people have a mixture of coping mechanisms. therefore your generalisation fails too.
I think Fnord is thinking more about social expectations. Women are much more able to talk to each other about emotional problems. It's quite normal for them. Men are conditioned not to show emotional weakness, and groups of men simply do not talk about their feelings. Even I can't do it, and I'm both gay and plain weird, so I should have an excuse.
It's uncomfortable, mostly. We don't usually show emotions like that, and we don't know how to respond to them (including when they're from women - ladies, if your man doesn't show you affection when you're upset, it isn't because he doesn't care but because he doesn't know what the hell to do).
there is a difference between asserting that social expectations lead to something and asserting that a "Men deal with it. That's just how it is".
your assertion allows that there is no right or wrong way for men to behave, just social conditioning. his statement asserts that men are designed a certain way and any other way of behaving is unnatural.
26 Feb 2012, 10:00 pm
26 Feb 2012, 11:31 pm
26 Feb 2012, 11:38 pm
26 Feb 2012, 11:41 pm
26 Feb 2012, 11:42 pm
26 Feb 2012, 11:49 pm
Fnord wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
why are you on about bad hair days and vampire series? that doesn't sound like most (or even many) women.
The way some of the women where I work carry on about even the most trivial things, you'd think that they were eligible for disaster relief every other day!
hyperlexian wrote:
that doesn't mean most women are like that. be careful what you imply.
Also, "trivial" is subjective. I think most men's sexual anatomy is trivial. They don't.
I think major sports teams' losses are trivial. Their fans don't. -They wail. Or throw a hissy fit a.k.a. riot like poop-flinging monkeys.
I find it silly.
But this is getting way off-topic. I'm sorry... We were talking about shutdowns.
27 Feb 2012, 12:05 am
27 Feb 2012, 3:20 am
28 Feb 2012, 2:18 am
28 Feb 2012, 7:33 pm
13 Apr 2012, 2:51 pm
Well-put!! ! This post and the way it's written is thorough, helpful and easy to comprehend - thanks so very much for contributing this post...it enabled me to 'reset' my NT self in being with my Aspie!! 
thanks a bunch!! !
~Catsas
pandorazmtbox wrote:
^ this is it exactly.
Shut down is actually him doing the best he can for you, and I hope you can see it that way. When I get overloaded, it means I can't process, and all sensory information coming in is making it worse. The heart, the emotions are usually running high as well, and they aren't understood either, because there is just too much going on. There are usually also overwhelming thoughts, but they aren't being thought clearly. It's kind of like cooking too much stuff at once in the kitchen and it's all about to burn...then the phone rings, the door knocks, the TV and Radio both suddenly turn on with the volume cranked up to maximum, all the sinks and tubs in the house are running and starting to overflow at once, a fire just started in the garbage can and the sewer is now backing up, then a tree crashes through the roof...you're the only one in the house and you're needed everywhere at once. THIS is the sensation of a meltdown/shutdown. If a neighbor comes over to help, you may snap at them, because they are just one more thing to have to deal with, and you can't see they're trying to help until you've crapped all over them.
The sensation is overwhelming, and adrenaline kicks in to try and help...so there is a fight or flight physical response happening. It doesn't go away or get better until you can sort of 'reboot' the system. When things get like this for me there are two ways to handle it: scream and rage (meltdown) or retreat and shut down.
Please understand that when he needs to retreat, it is because he needs to reset himself. He is not necessarily running away from you. My husband doesn't understand this about me. He thinks my need to be alone, and my need to retreat when things are intense is personal and an insult. You need to feel secure that he'll return to you when he is able--and you may be able to coax him back. You should let him know that you understand he needs the distance but how it makes you feel--because he probably can't see that bit of the puzzle. When he's calm, the two of you should make a strategy so that he gets the space to recuperate, and you get to demonstrate your understanding and support and still fill like your needs are getting met also. Maybe agree on a post meltdown/shutdown routine...?
For example, if he needs to shut down, maybe there is a place in the house that can signal that, so he doesn't have to try and say it in words. When I shut down, I go selectively mute, and making me talk will probably lead to a screaming match--because I can't make words when I'm like that. I've heard it recommended that Aspies can have a sign signal on the closed door of their room (or special interest room or meltdown closet or whatever works for him...). Green Light means 'come on in', Yellow Light means 'proceed with caution' and Red Light means 'only if the house is on fire.' Some nonverbal signal like this might tell you when it's okay to try to reconnect with him...maybe bring him tea or rub his back--plan some gentle nonverbal connection that you BOTH know means "hey, I'm here when you are ready to tell me about it". I think working out a plan PRIOR to high emotions is essential here.
I also think you working to understand that certain bits of his neurology are just givens. He has to make allowances and compromises for them, and that means that you need to as well if you want to be in a relationship with him. My husband never understood that about me, and has never seemed to try. I think posting here is a good start to get to understanding.
Relationships are tricky things, and what I've learned from mine is that the times we hurt each other, it's usually because we're insecure about something. That's probably all the counselor is going to do--help you both see why what the other does hurts and makes you feel insecure. Once you can get to that, there's always a way to fix it and find a solution if you're both willing to really understand each other. I hope you find a solution that works for both of you.
Shut down is actually him doing the best he can for you, and I hope you can see it that way. When I get overloaded, it means I can't process, and all sensory information coming in is making it worse. The heart, the emotions are usually running high as well, and they aren't understood either, because there is just too much going on. There are usually also overwhelming thoughts, but they aren't being thought clearly. It's kind of like cooking too much stuff at once in the kitchen and it's all about to burn...then the phone rings, the door knocks, the TV and Radio both suddenly turn on with the volume cranked up to maximum, all the sinks and tubs in the house are running and starting to overflow at once, a fire just started in the garbage can and the sewer is now backing up, then a tree crashes through the roof...you're the only one in the house and you're needed everywhere at once. THIS is the sensation of a meltdown/shutdown. If a neighbor comes over to help, you may snap at them, because they are just one more thing to have to deal with, and you can't see they're trying to help until you've crapped all over them.
The sensation is overwhelming, and adrenaline kicks in to try and help...so there is a fight or flight physical response happening. It doesn't go away or get better until you can sort of 'reboot' the system. When things get like this for me there are two ways to handle it: scream and rage (meltdown) or retreat and shut down.
Please understand that when he needs to retreat, it is because he needs to reset himself. He is not necessarily running away from you. My husband doesn't understand this about me. He thinks my need to be alone, and my need to retreat when things are intense is personal and an insult. You need to feel secure that he'll return to you when he is able--and you may be able to coax him back. You should let him know that you understand he needs the distance but how it makes you feel--because he probably can't see that bit of the puzzle. When he's calm, the two of you should make a strategy so that he gets the space to recuperate, and you get to demonstrate your understanding and support and still fill like your needs are getting met also. Maybe agree on a post meltdown/shutdown routine...?
For example, if he needs to shut down, maybe there is a place in the house that can signal that, so he doesn't have to try and say it in words. When I shut down, I go selectively mute, and making me talk will probably lead to a screaming match--because I can't make words when I'm like that. I've heard it recommended that Aspies can have a sign signal on the closed door of their room (or special interest room or meltdown closet or whatever works for him...). Green Light means 'come on in', Yellow Light means 'proceed with caution' and Red Light means 'only if the house is on fire.' Some nonverbal signal like this might tell you when it's okay to try to reconnect with him...maybe bring him tea or rub his back--plan some gentle nonverbal connection that you BOTH know means "hey, I'm here when you are ready to tell me about it". I think working out a plan PRIOR to high emotions is essential here.
I also think you working to understand that certain bits of his neurology are just givens. He has to make allowances and compromises for them, and that means that you need to as well if you want to be in a relationship with him. My husband never understood that about me, and has never seemed to try. I think posting here is a good start to get to understanding.
Relationships are tricky things, and what I've learned from mine is that the times we hurt each other, it's usually because we're insecure about something. That's probably all the counselor is going to do--help you both see why what the other does hurts and makes you feel insecure. Once you can get to that, there's always a way to fix it and find a solution if you're both willing to really understand each other. I hope you find a solution that works for both of you.
13 Apr 2012, 3:19 pm
13 Apr 2012, 6:50 pm
Joker
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14 Apr 2012, 1:32 pm
15 Apr 2012, 12:08 am
