A Partner Who Will Challenge Me

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That ain't going to happen. A man wants a woman who will stand behind him and help him in his career so that he can support you and the children.

What if he is offered a management job in a city a thousand miles away and you are offered a promotion in a different city?

Then what?

If you believe in conventional gender roles, see women as not fully human and want to unhold the falsity of male privilege, then yes. Not all men do, thankfully.

I know men who turned down jobs so their wives could pursue their own careers. These are the happiest married people I've known. Why? Simple, because they respect each other's needs for personal growth and achievement, and other times, a smrt, loving man understands that he needs to make sacrifices so his wife can have equal opportunities for that.

Thank you for being a fine example of a guy who is not so desperate he will date any girl who comes along.

No, I see that 50% of first marriages fail these days. 65% of second marriages fail and 75% of third marriages fail.

I see huge numbers of "one parent families" where there is no father.

I see huge numbers of "families" where a woman has several children and never did have a husband

Look at "OcmoMom" with 14 children.

I couldn't tell the tone of this.

I'm sorry sometimes text is awful at explanation, but were you being serious or were you mocking me?



Not sure I understand your question.

But what I was speaking of had more to do with personality traits then professional lives.

I don't see anything wrong with your original train of thought. Honestly, I prefer a guy who is witty and who challenges me on many levels. I want someone who makes me think, who pushes the boundaries a little, and who really, genuinely wants to know me. Lots of guys want to push me into opening up and showing them my entire world without first showing me that they have little more than a curiosity in the unknown. I honestly am not created to satisfy a guy's desire to conquer the unknown because once the average guy is done with the mystery, he's on to the next one. It's rare to find a guy who cares about little more.

I'm sorry if that feels like a generalization, but it has been my experience, and I cannot speak anyone's truth but my own.

I completely understand.

And its something I find remarkably sexy in a woman, good wit, good charm. Someone who doesn't always establish with the normal train of thought that is society train of thought.

I was being serious. I've noticed many of the men on here think most men (contrary to my experiences as a woman) will jump at the chance to date any girl. They don't realize, that most guys, such as yourself, have their standards and requirements.

Exactly

Judging from this anecdotal example, by "challenge" you mean "gets my cultural references and can make snappy comebacks". This isn't as 100% off-putting as it first sounded in your OP but it is still somewhat elitist. And it is meant to be that way, I suppose. It's a test intended to screen out anyone who isn't "of our kind, dear" as people used to say 100 years ago.

100 years ago, the reference-understanding test was a test to make sure a potential date-ee was well educated. The person would drop classical references or literary references to see if the person got it. The requirement of a snappy comeback was to make sure the person really got it and was able to assimilate rather than merely regurgitate the desirable culture.

50 years ago, the reference-understanding test was to make sure the potential date-ee was "hip". Did he/she listen to be-bop jazz? admire the paintings of Jackson Pollack? Then they were "one of us".

You just have an update on this sort of reference testing. It has its minor virtues in that it screens out at least some of the women with whom you would be incompatible based on never "getting" each other. It has its drawbacks in that its' laser-like focus on a particular reference screens out women you would be compatible with but who just haven't encountered what may very well be an obscure corner of an obscure subculture. There is so much cultural stuff out there that the odds are high that the woman who is just right for you simply hasn't come across (or isn't interested in) what your favorite bit of culture is. It also screens out women who are annoyed by a screening test. Which may be what happened right there. For all you know, she got the reference but wasn't about to put up with the game of having to prove to you that she knew the cultural secret password.

The catch is, when you find this woman who challenges you, you may discover that her challenge comes in the form of testing you. And if she is as stringent and demanding as you are that a person be "in the know" of certain things, you will find it exhausting trying to contantly pass her tests. In other words, if you don't cut some slack when looking for a woman, you will wind up with a woman who equally does not cut slack and run a high risk of being unceremoniously dumped.

But that's all part of the adventure of life.

Here's a question: if that woman had whipped out an ipad and googled your reference before replying to it, would that have passed your test?

I'm not saying that your demands for a partner are not allowed. I'm saying what you said is most probable to be interpreted that way (if she understood, not everyone likes star trek).

I understand you've had bad experiences with women but please understand that I'm just trying to be helpful here. Quick wit is one thing (and can be great) but being aware of the boundary between quick wit and insult/rejection is advisable if you don't want to find another abusive relationship.

Also, I didn't do any psychoanalysis BS. I only thought about how I would think about what you said and what I know about how other women react to such things. There is validity to what I say. I feel annoyed that you would react to my attempt to help in such an annoyed manner but if you think that everyone who says/acts differently to your expectations is wrong, it's your loss and your own issues.

Well see look...I didn't mean to say it was a real test or that it was an actual test.

Sometimes I don't say things that um are cultural.

Girl, "Nice motorcycle, I'd like to hop on the back of that,"

Me, "Well there are other motorcycles beside me, you can hop on those,"

And the girl doesn't respond any further, she gives me a bit of a frown and walks off. Sometimes I wish a girl would continue and say something back. I'm terrible, but I'm also trying to be playful in my own kind of way. Which doesn't seem at all charming. But that's how I have fun and it makes it less stressful on me too. Because if we're having fun. It isn't always a direct rejection from me. I want them to continue.

But then there are times, when I can't stand it.

Is this really the way you talk to people?

You tell them about hopping on their motorcycle, how they've seen in class a couple of times...which is kind of borderline stalking, etc. That's just a little. It makes me uncomfortable. "Oh hey I'm going out for lunch, wish I wasn't alone". And you expect me to go out with right of the bat?

I like things to be slow. To know you first. And for the most part I don't appreciate all the blatant slander.

Quoting the New radicals "You get what you give".

If you read over the posts you'll probably notice that the posts got a bit hostile after you got defensive.

About the usual break the ice stuff that people do, I can understand why you'd feel they are stalkerish because they would seem so when looked at literally. It took me years to realise that this 90% or more body language thing (in conversation) wasn't the bs it sounded like, it is a genuine thing, thus these words literally mean nothing except as a carrier to the message (even when it's more obvious).

You do understand that the example you give above is "acting like a dick" and no woman will ever respond in the way you hope, right? You might be able to banter like that once you are in a relationship or a friendship and she knows you, but as a first impression you cannot expect anything other than "walking away".

I have to agree. If a woman comes on to you and you tell her to go away, she will. They've been rejected. They move on.

When a woman tells a man to go away & he doesn't; it's considered harassment