I MAY BE OLD-FASHIONED

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Well

Well, well, well.
If you're (or anybody) is young and strong enough to do for me all the things that I can't or never could do anymore, it's ok: I'll put for you your laundry in the washing-machine - as long as it still works.

... But maybe you're capable of fixing it as well when it'll break down for good?

I would just buy a new one, isn't the man just a walking ATM in the old-fashion traditional sense?

QFT

Where I come from, most guys do open doors for women and allow them first- it can make for quite an awkward dance when you're walking in a group, but it's no big deal.

Wanting him to pay for your date though is a bit rich as most women have jobs (more than men even). I'd be a bit uneasy if a guy insisted on the first date unless he was earning waaay out of my league. After you've been dating for a while it's ok because you can just buy the next one...

Oh, I forgot to mention, it's also a good idea to treat people with respect.
So unless you disrespect men and not women, of course it's perfectly OK to treat them the same way. Although I admit I can't at all empathize with the notion of treating people as men and women as opposed to...people, in the first place.

I've never been in a bar, don't plan to, and, regardless, would take no qualms with being treated as a human being as opposed to a gender.

Wait. First different treatment because of sex is so common you incredulously demand to know my reaction if treated as the same in an anomalous situation, and then you (you...I don't know the "we" you refer to) assert there is no such difference in treatment?

...who said they didn't?
And who said anything of sexist language?

If you're content with status quo cultural practices, so be it.
Applying your opinion to any one example of them and declaring them objectively-acceptable is, however..interesting.

I'm a gentleman. I pull out chairs, open doors, etc. Yet I've never had a girlfriend in my life. SO I have been wondering the opposite: 'Where are the women that appreciate nice men, rather than some tattoed bikie bad boy'?

Men are people. Women are people. Thus treating men like men and women like women *is* treating men and women as people.

I don't understand your objection.

Indeed - the advice she seems to be giving is to be utterly sexless when dealing with women - whilst treating them as people - and not taking account of their differences and needs. What a sad, grey world that would be.

Treating people in a completely gender-neutral way is unrealistic anyway. Our society is the result of hundreds of thousands of years of social and psychological evolution.

chivalry is not dead yet my fellow knights in shining armor are just outnumbered by ret*ds in tinfoil

**Buuurp**

Wanna some ale mate? Let's have a drink and talk about video games and babes.

I work in a big office building full of middle-aged suits. they always want me to step into the elevator first.

I want them to step into the elevator first because I consider them "elderly" and anyway they carry those big briefcases and their foreheads sweat and make them look like they're constantly on the verge of a heart attack. I feel sorry for them and since I'm young I feel like they are higher in the hierarchy of respect.

I also step out of the elevator on the ground floor and not on -1 like most of them who drive to work and park their cars below the building. so there really is no reason for me to go into the back of the elevator. then when the doors open on ground floor and I want to step out of the elevator the poor men all suck their bellies in to let me through but they just *wouldn't step out* because in their minds, the woman has to be let through first. this always ends with a nightmarish exit wherein I practice my acrobatics in order to avoid getting myself rubbed by middle-aged beer guts.

I sometimes try to gesture them into the elevator first but they gesture back to me the "please, madam, after you" and just stand still. this could easily turn into an endless loop of awkwardness and gesturing so usually I just give in.

I'd happily see chivalry go extinct just so I could avoid those elevator rides.

^Maybe they do that so they can watch your ass.

Or maybe because they don't want to be criticized for not being chivalrous enough? I do this for that reason.Even here, guys who step first are usually criticized and angrily stared by the girls . However, In Muslim and Druze rural areas it's quite the opposite, men step in and out first there, so maybe you'd love to move to some village there.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 31 Jul 2011, 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Or take the stairs.

Men and women are just plain different. That's all there is to it. I don't see the point of acting otherwise.

And before the feminist flames hit, that does NOT mean that one sex is superior/inferior to the other. It just means that we were made to complement each other and that gender roles make male and female equal. Not separate. Just different.

For legal purposes, we say "all [people] are created equal." I think that's true, but we aren't created equal in all things. I play and teach piano, and not everyone I know can do that. But I CAN'T fix a car when it breaks down. There are people who work on cars all day long but don't know middle C from any other note. And I think it's a good thing we are the way we are.

Same with differences between the sexes. It's something to be celebrated, not bemoaned. Some men enjoy just being the nice, big guy who opens doors for ladies, and some women enjoy putting on dresses and makeup, being girly, and impressing nice big guys who open doors. Some women actually WANT to stay home and raise their children, their husbands making enough money to make it happen. That doesn't mean there HAS to be a lack of respect and dignity between the two.

That's it. Trying to pretend otherwise would just make an environment far more sterile and humourless than it is even now. Only the far-left Millie Tant faction would get anything out of it, and their role is to divide and conquer.

The best that one can do is to behave as well as one can from people, following basic protocol (i.e. don't make sexist remarks, don't cat-call and women: don't make sexist jokes or go on about how useless men are) and then go from there.

Are you single? You would be shocked at how appreciative a woman is when she encounters a man who knows the difference between being polite and having manners.